Montana Rifle Co, Shoot2Hunt, and Rokslide Rifle

[Formidilosus]

Form. The current MRC rifles have Integrated mlok that starts just in front of the magwell. Will rockstock version have this?

I shoot off a tripod alot and love the connection to be more toward center of rifle and not the front. So I like the mlok option like they have it. I use spartan system so maybe a gunsmith adapter sunk into the stock in front of the magwell would work too

No, it won’t have MLOK. It’s a Rokstok with the Trinity mount up front as they have currently.

 

[DangerRanger]

Yes I know that 25-30fps is the average loss per inch for most lengths.

Where is the data or study that shows case geometry has no effect? Link?

The null should be that there is no difference in this scenario.

Where is the data or study that shows there is a significant difference?

 

[Bluumoon]

@Formidilosus @Ryan Avery @Imac45acp
Can you make the stock extensions standard, or a least pre drill for the spacers or whatever? Both of my stocks need to be sent back in since it’s not a DIY deal. I’m pretty average build and LOP isn’t long enough w the Maven scope as far forward as it can go.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus @Ryan Avery @Imac45acp
Can you make the stock extensions standard, or a least pre drill for the spacers or whatever? Both of my stocks need to be sent back in since it’s not a DIY deal. I’m pretty average build and LOP isn’t long enough w the Maven scope as far forward as it can go.

I think so.

 

[Brontosaurus]

@Formidilosus @Ryan Avery @Imac45acp
Can you make the stock extensions standard, or a least pre drill for the spacers or whatever? Both of my stocks need to be sent back in since it’s not a DIY deal. I’m pretty average build and LOP isn’t long enough w the Maven scope as far forward as it can go.

I'm in the same boat rn. Just picked u the R.S 1.2. Debating between just getting medium rings or trying to get the LOP longer.

 

[Formidilosus]

I'm in the same boat rn. Just picked u the R.S 1.2. Debating between just getting medium rings or trying to get the LOP longer.

You want the longer LOP.


It is interesting, I have stated for years on here that the common LOP of 13.5” is too short for a large percentage of the male population, and that it is actually a result of poor stock dimensions. Now that people are using the Rokstok, about half really need a 14.5” LOP to be perfect.

 

[Schmo]

Haha. For the two people in a decade that will buy one? Fast twist 7-08’s with 180’s is an excellent combo, but it is a rapidly fading cartridge that is extremely unlikely to regain popularity.

Yeah. 6mm will be my primary hunting rifle, but I have a love for the 708 and similar. If I were going to buy a 7mm, it’d be of that class.

 

[HighUintas]

I’m trying to reconcile the bolded first part, with the second paragraph. Are you asking in general for reading material about tests conducted? Or are you saying you don’t believe it and are challenging the position?

Does it matter? I'm asking for proof backing the statement that it is a myth. I don't necessarily believe it is true or false, but that it's a possibility. yes I'd like to read about it if this testing has been done and shows It to be a myth.

 

[HighUintas]

The null should be that there is no difference in this scenario.

Where is the data or study that shows there is a significant difference?

I'm not sure what you're asking.

That's exactly what I'm asking for. Data showing that there is or is not a difference.

 

[wind gypsy]

I'm not sure what you're asking.

That's exactly what I'm asking for. Data showing that there is or is not a difference.

I think what you're looking for is going to be noise in the big scheme of things even if there were a small difference in "efficiency".

 

[DangerRanger]

I'm not sure what you're asking.

That's exactly what I'm asking for. Data showing that there is or is not a difference.

no, you asked for data showing that your implied? assumption is not true

Yes I know that 25-30fps is the average loss per inch for most lengths.

Where is the data or study that shows case geometry has no effect? Link?

Granted, it is hard to tell if you are implying that it does or not from your wording, but given that you are only asking for data showing no effect it does imply you are challenging that.

 

[Brontosaurus]

You want the longer LOP.


It is interesting, I have stated for years on here that the common LOP of 13.5” is too short for a large percentage of the male population, and that it is actually a result of poor stock dimensions. Now that people are using the Rokstok, about half really need a 14.5” LOP to be perfect.

Yeah I'm built like a giraffe and the more I shoot the rokstock the more I realize that I tuck it into my collarbone. I'll have to look into getting that LOP fixed

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

For reference, I am 5’6” and was convinced in my mind I needed to wait for a shorter LOP Rokstok to be released before getting one.

That was not the case at all. In fact it feels absolutely perfect in field conditions. If it was any shorter, I’d be putting a spacer in.

 

[HighUintas]

no, you asked for data showing that your implied? assumption is not true



Granted, it is hard to tell if you are implying that it does or not from your wording, but given that you are only asking for data showing no effect it does imply you are challenging that.

I think case geometry can possibly have an effect, but don't know for sure. I haven't seen any definitive evidence to support the statement that it is a myth.

 

[HighUintas]

A different way to address my original question that I probably wouldn't have asked for data on is something like "any observable difference is small enough to not matter when considering the popularity of 300wm over 300wsm".

 

[HNTR918]

Please, Please, Please, make the CRF action weigh less than a Kimber 84M!

 

[RockAndSage]

You want the longer LOP.


It is interesting, I have stated for years on here that the common LOP of 13.5” is too short for a large percentage of the male population, and that it is actually a result of poor stock dimensions. Now that people are using the Rokstok, about half really need a 14.5” LOP to be perfect.

I'm starting to get a bit confused on proper LOP setup, after reading this.

Early on I preferred a longer LOP, and blading my body for any kind of off-hand shooting, whether shotgunning or rifle. Especially where there might be a lot of swinging through a fast moving target. Fastforward to about 10-15 years ago, and a lot of guys start discovering and disseminating that you get far better control over your ARs by collapsing the stock a bit, bringing the buttstock in much more centerline to your torso, with almost no blading of the body. Basically, roughly the same posture as you would action pistol, just holding a different weapon. Which works phenomenally well in reducing the impact of recoil, minimizing point-of-aim shift, and in general just controlling the gun. Especially when running it hard. And most recently, I'm seeing PRS shooters are bringing things more centerline too, whether prone or standing, to stay in the scope and on target better. Same stuff. All of which necessitates shorter LOP. For me personally a bit moreso than average on top of that, as I have thick chest and shorter, muscular arms and shoulders. There's just less room for a stock in there, especially when I bring the buttstock more centerline.

In light of this, could you explain how you see proper stock setup for a field hunting rifle, esp with a Rokstock? Is there, or should there be, any difference between its LOP and that of an AR, or a PRS gun?

 

[bullmtn]

Yeah I'm built like a giraffe and the more I shoot the rokstock the more I realize that I tuck it into my collarbone. I'll have to look into getting that LOP fixed

I bet you’re built more like long necked dinosaur maybe a bronto…. Never mind.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Vote Now!

MRC has narrowed it down to five names. Rokslide gets the final vote. The Poll will close on Christmas Eve. The Name with the most votes wins.

rokslide.com

 

[Formidilosus]

I'm starting to get a bit confused on proper LOP setup, after reading this.

Early on I preferred a longer LOP, and blading my body for any kind of off-hand shooting, whether shotgunning or rifle. Especially where there might be a lot of swinging through a fast moving target. Fastforward to about 10-15 years ago, and a lot of guys start discovering and disseminating that you get far better control over your ARs by collapsing the stock a bit, bringing the buttstock in much more centerline to your torso, with almost no blading of the body. Basically, roughly the same posture as you would action pistol, just holding a different weapon. Which works phenomenally well in reducing the impact of recoil, minimizing point-of-aim shift, and in general just controlling the gun. Especially when running it hard.

The “squared up” stance wasn’t used by the top end shooters from 2001 when I started, mans mostly isn’t now. The “tactical” world did the collapsed stock, butt pad on pec thing. The highest performing rifle shooters in 3-gun/multi-gun “shot as much rifle as they could”, meaning they extended the butt-stock all the way out or close to, and placed their support hand as far forward on the handguard as possible.

And most recently, I'm seeing PRS shooters are bringing things more centerline too, whether prone or standing, to stay in the scope and on target better. Same stuff.

PRS shooters shoot 90% of shots from a tripod or barricade in an upright body position with 25-40lb rifles that functionally do not move. What they are doing is as nearly specialized as benchrest, and about as applicable to hunting. What happens when a rifle with actual recoil is placed on a persons “centerline” (clavicle) and is fired- especially from prone?


Furthermore, if you actually watch shooters shooting in stages and in practice you see that their shoulders are not square to the target, and they do have an angle relative to the rifle. IIRC it was MDT that did a YouTube video about “squared up” and then in all of their own shooting in the video, they are not squared up. The rifle doesn’t care how your body is angled, it cares that the surface it is recoiling against is perpendicular to the bore-line.

All of which necessitates shorter LOP. For me personally a bit moreso than average on top of that, as I have thick chest and shorter, muscular arms and shoulders. There's just less room for a stock in there, especially when I bring the buttstock more centerline.

Probably because you shouldn’t be putting the butt-stock on your clavicle.

In light of this, could you explain how you see proper stock setup for a field hunting rifle, esp with a Rokstock?

You I believe, like most are visualizing it as the scope stays in place relative to the rifle, and your shoulder and firing grip moves back- that is not what I am saying, nor how it should work. Instead, think- your firing hand stays in place relative to the action and barrel, but your shoulder and head move back with the scope.

In other words your problem is increasing LOP but not moving the scope back to compensate, therefore you are having to scrunch up to get eye relief- this is exaggerated by trigger reaches being too long on stocks. Don’t do that- move the scope back when you increase LOP. Then your hand and wrist are in much better alignment to press a trigger straight to the rear.

Is there, or should there be, any difference between its LOP and that of an AR, or a PRS gun?

No, see above.