Montana Mule Deer - First timer

[Tmac]

….come shoot a whitetail. There's too many in the mountains and they're outcompeting mule deer in winter range in a lot of areas.

Excellent idea. About 1/2 the MT bucks we take are whitetails where we hunt SE. We have really come to enjoy chasing those semi open country whitetails, and they are better table fare too. Probably easier for us to select a WT because we can hunt mule deer at home.

Our last hunt was 2021, population had dramatically dropped due to drought & a blue tongue outbreak. We are waiting for the population of either or both to recover where we hunt. Once they recover some, we’ll be back looking for either species.

 

[TAGPUNCHER]

I've been to Montana 3 times trying to kill a buck. I've yet to pull the trigger. Damn sure not because I haven't had chances. This past season I saw a TON of small bucks. I didn't drive 28 hrs to shoot a dink. I can kill 300 whitetails a year where I live legally. If SE MT would close for 2 or 3yrs it would be a blessing to the herd. I have met a bunch of locals that haven't shot a deer in years because of the low numbers. If you wanna get some GO TO H-LL stares at the gas station,shoot a dink. Every Washington and Minnesota truck I saw had them piled up. If you wanna go,I would definitely go and just enjoy some truly awesome people and country. Just driving around and soaking up the history and local landmarks have made it fun for me. If you hunt hard who knows you might stumble upon that unicorn giant! I will be back next year to do the same.

 

[freezerfull]

The years of liberal mule deer doe hunting has definitely depressed numbers in MT. My experience with Montana is only in recent years. If you’re willing to eat the tag and are selective there are decent bucks to be found. I don’t think many approach a Montana general hunt that way though. It takes work and staying out all day. Hunt cover and tucked away pockets. Mule deer aren’t the smartest but the mature ones seem to have learned to avoid chasing the large doe harems in the open unless on private.

Some things should change for the sake of the herd but the sentiment that only dinks can be found on public is amusing. From what I’ve heard, just a few years back decent bucks could be found from glassing out of the truck during the rut, definitely not the case anymore. Hunt hard and strategically just like in states like WA or ID.

And to add to prior comments, I’m not sure what makes people go ham on a bunch of dinks at almost $900 a pop.

 

[TheYukiYama]

I've been going to Colorado for 5 years for elk already so just looking for a change of pace really.

That's great you've been taking many trips to CO for elk and now planning to head to MT for Mule deer! Might be worth doing a md hunt in CO if you know some areas better. Once you have a bit of experience hunting other states may be easier.
I just looked over your posts/threads and see a few different questions asking for others info. Would be cool to see you giving back some insight as an out of state elk hunter in CO, as it looks like you;ve been successful.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

I was told by a CPW officer that "if more people killed small young bucks then they could lower tag numbers" for the unit we were hunting.

Essentially they want you to kill the future breeders in order to then limit tags because there are no bucks left to breed once the older bucks die off. Lower tags = less crowding.

Less crowding comes at the expense of the herds health. Once the crowding is gone the complaining will turn to there being no bucks to kill.


It would be difficult for me to eat tag soup on a $800 deer tag. At that price point I can understand why you see NR trucks with a pile of small bucks. 40lbs of finished meat is better than a stick in the eye.

 

[freezerfull]

It would be difficult for me to eat tag soup on a $800 deer tag. At that price point I can understand why you see NR trucks with a pile of small bucks. 40lbs of finished meat is better than a stick in the eye.

I understand NR hunter not wanting to go home with an empty cooler, I would highly encourage focusing on whitetail to be the target of for a last day deer. Montana has ample opportunity to make this happen in most popular mule deer country.

 

[TheYukiYama]

I was told by a CPW officer that "if more people killed small young bucks then they could lower tag numbers" for the unit we were hunting.

Essentially they want you to kill the future breeders in order to then limit tags because there are no bucks left to breed once the older bucks die off. Lower tags = less crowding.

Less crowding comes at the expense of the herds health. Once the crowding is gone the complaining will turn to there being no bucks to kill.

was officer comment in response to complaints about crowding? This thread seems to me to be about low deer/low trophy numbers, which taking small bucks certainly doesn't help.

Or are you saying Montana intentionally lowered deer numbers to try to reduce tags to reduce crowding so now we are already in the third stage here? i'm not sure I believe this theory.. Seems against what I have seen about MT management. I don't think they would reduce tag revenue just to reduce crowding..

 

[IrkedCitizen]

I understand NR hunter not wanting to go home with an empty cooler, I would highly encourage focusing on whitetail to be the target of for a last day deer. Montana has ample opportunity to make this happen in most popular mule deer country.

Most of the NR that are traveling to hunt mule deer are doing so to hunt an animal they cannot hunt locally. So if they have have spent $800 on a tag with the purpose of killing a mule deer, why would they kill a whitetail? This is obviously the overwhelming case that is happening in MT.

If I was traveling for the purpose of killing a whitetail I would not be traveling to MT.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

was officer comment in response to complaints about crowding? This thread seems to me to be about low deer/low trophy numbers, which taking small bucks certainly doesn't help.

Or are you saying Montana intentionally lowered deer numbers to try to reduce tags to reduce crowding so now we are already in the third stage here? i'm not sure I believe this theory.. Seems against what I have seen about MT management. I don't think they would reduce tag revenue just to reduce crowding..

The officers comment wasn't in reference to crowding. My friend from TN asked if he could bring one of his buddies that I had met before out to CO to hunt mule deer. My friends buddy missed a 150 class 4x4 with eye guards opening morning. We continued to hike and hunt the rest of opening day which made him "unable to hunt" come the next morning. So day two my friend and myself set out to try and get a buck for my friend. When we came back that evening my friends buddy had gone out and killed a 75" 3x3. There was mandatory CWD testing for our unit that year and the CPW officer came to camp and was taking the necessary samples.

When I made the comment about how he killed the small buck without us after missing a much bigger buck opening day. That is when the officer made that comment.


I cannot comment on if this is the principal of MT because there isn't much to be done about winter kill and blue tongue. It wouldn't surprise me though.

Outside of "taking so long to draw a tag" the next complaint typically is "would have had a better hunt if there were less hunters"

 

[mt terry d]

killed a 75" 3x3.

Pictures!!!!!

 

[freezerfull]

Most of the NR that are traveling to hunt mule deer are doing so to hunt an animal they cannot hunt locally. So if they have have spent $800 on a tag with the purpose of killing a mule deer, why would they kill a whitetail? This is obviously the overwhelming case that is happening in MT.

If I was traveling for the purpose of killing a whitetail I would not be traveling to MT.

I understand the desire to target new species. But I don’t understand this mentality, if you’re trying to harvest an animal representative of the species, I don’t think I’d feel great about a 1.5 or 2.5 year old buck on my wall to just say “there’s my Muley I got out in insert state here”.

To each their own though. If it’s legal it all good.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

Pictures!!!!!

I never really taped it but here it is.


After the CPW took the CWD samples it got skull capped. Here it is placed inside the 150 class buck my friend killed.

 

[Derekc6713]

I understand the desire to target new species. But I don’t understand this mentality, if you’re trying to harvest an animal representative of the species, I don’t think I’d feel great about a 1.5 or 2.5 year old buck on my wall to just say “there’s my Muley I got out in insert state here”.

To each their own though. If it’s legal it all good.

So my question is what if you’re more than happy with a smaller deer? Not everyone is as obsessed with antler size or age class. When I came out to Montana it wasn’t about the size of the deer it was about being out and enjoying the trip, the landscape, and the company. You’re there to enjoy yourself and hopefully bring home some meat right? That to me is a successful hunt. I mean I shot an obvious dink by the standards of many on this thread on the third day of my hunt and I was ecstatic. To me that buck exceeded all my expectations because I wasn’t sure we’d even see a deer to shoot. An added bonus after I shot my deer I got to break out the shotgun and have a blast chasing huns, sharpies, pheasants, and jack rabbits for the rest of the trip. So how would’ve it been better if I had spent my entire trip chasing after an older age class buck to hang on my wall that I’d have a very small chance of seeing let alone harvesting and coming home with nothing?

 

[Dos Perros]

If you’re happy with a smaller deer go somewhere with healthy herds and shoot one.

 

[Scottf270]

A hunter can experience the country, the animals, the people etc without killing anything. Much of it comes down to the "I paid $800 for this tag and I'm killing something" mentality. And I don't buy the "I killed for the meat" argument either. Killing is a part of hunting but you don't have to kill to have hunted.
If the herds were in great shape and at or above capacity, then killing something regardless of size wouldn't hurt as much. I blame this sad situation squarely on MT FWP for being money driven and too weak to drastically cut tags for the benefit of the resource.
Remember, just cuz it's legal doesn't mean you should do it.

 

[freezerfull]

So my question is what if you’re more than happy with a smaller deer? Not everyone is as obsessed with antler size or age class. When I came out to Montana it wasn’t about the size of the deer it was about being out and enjoying the trip, the landscape, and the company. You’re there to enjoy yourself and hopefully bring home some meat right? That to me is a successful hunt. I mean I shot an obvious dink by the standards of many on this thread on the third day of my hunt and I was ecstatic. To me that buck exceeded all my expectations because I wasn’t sure we’d even see a deer to shoot. An added bonus after I shot my deer I got to break out the shotgun and have a blast chasing huns, sharpies, pheasants, and jack rabbits for the rest of the trip. So how would’ve it been better if I had spent my entire trip chasing after an older age class buck to hang on my wall that I’d have a very small chance of seeing let alone harvesting and coming home with nothin

So my question is what if you’re more than happy with a smaller deer? Not everyone is as obsessed with antler size or age class. When I came out to Montana it wasn’t about the size of the deer it was about being out and enjoying the trip, the landscape, and the company. You’re there to enjoy yourself and hopefully bring home some meat right? That to me is a successful hunt. I mean I shot an obvious dink by the standards of many on this thread on the third day of my hunt and I was ecstatic. To me that buck exceeded all my expectations because I wasn’t sure we’d even see a deer to shoot. An added bonus after I shot my deer I got to break out the shotgun and have a blast chasing huns, sharpies, pheasants, and jack rabbits for the rest of the trip. So how would’ve it been better if I had spent my entire trip chasing after an older age class buck to hang on my wall that I’d have a very small chance of seeing let alone harvesting and coming home with nothing?

Enjoying the outdoors is what it’s all about and meat in the freezer is the goal. It’s good to harvest what makes you happy, everyone has a set of standards we challenge ourselves with. I’m not telling anyone they have to hunt a certain way just giving a suggestion. One that may actually preserve the opportunity for future years. In addition to the great bird hunting blast some coyotes as well, they pretty much are eastern MT MD’s only predator and there’s tons out there.

When it’s strictly about the hunt, enjoying the outdoors and getting meat in the freezer, why harvest a young muley that’s rut dumb when there are ample whities. You still come home with meat. Hunt hard for a MD and if it doesn’t pan out focus on whitetail on the outset of the hunt. Mule deer are a rather sensitive species and regulations are behind their decline. Hunting isn’t the cause in lots of places but regarding eastern MT does stacked like cord wood for many years definitely contributed.

Thankfully WA has finally got rid of antlerless general season MD harvest for the vast majority of GMU’s. Montana has moved in the right direction but full moratorium on does would be better.

 

[Derekc6713]

I understand and don’t disagree with the past two posts. Call me an ignorant nonres but I did not realize how bad a shape the Mule Deer were in as I have had nothing to compare it to from years past. To me I thought the amount and size of deer we saw was totally normal for general tag public land hunting. As I have stated earlier in the thread if I find myself back in Montana in the near future I’d happily shoot a whitetail. I’d also happily shoot coyotes as I saw a ton of them last time I was out. Was actually pretty amazed at how many I saw. They are fair game year round right? Does no one shoot them out there?

 

[freezerfull]

My initial post on this thread was very pro hunting MT for the OP. I wanted to make it clear that there is a possibility of success for someone who wants to be selective with MD and they still have the opportunity to harvest a WT as a backup.

I am also a NR however I hunt MD in my home state plenty too.

The herds are down, however many have blown it out of proportion. Deer hunting just isn’t as easy as it was when more deer were out there. Some people in the past got used to parking and glassing a couple of draws finding a buck and making a play. Now opportunities doing that, at least for a decent buck are few, those peoples response is there’s no deer anymore. Well there is still mule deer just much fewer. So to keep the opportunity to hunt them I think it’s worth trying to challenge ourselves when hunting MD regardless of what regs say. Now kids, first deer, limited mobility, etc. take what’s legal but if you have the ability to hike, have hunting experience and have a few harvests under your belt it’s time to challenge ourselves when it comes to mule deer in many locales. Doesn’t have to be a 160 but seek out the more mature ones if you can.

On another note, I’ve noticed a lot of bad scoring mature bucks in MT. Most people want their “Montana 4pt” and they pass on older forks and 3pts so they grow old. I love those ones haha. I’ll take a grey faced 130+ 3x3 all day.

As for coyotes, the way I understand it is there’s no fur market anymore. It’s pretty much up to hunters and trappers to do the work without any return. I just make a point of shooting at every yote I see.

 

[TheYukiYama]

So my question is what if you’re more than happy with a smaller deer? Not everyone is as obsessed with antler size or age class. When I came out to Montana it wasn’t about the size of the deer it was about being out and enjoying the trip, the landscape, and the company. You’re there to enjoy yourself and hopefully bring home some meat right? That to me is a successful hunt. I mean I shot an obvious dink by the standards of many on this thread on the third day of my hunt and I was ecstatic. To me that buck exceeded all my expectations because I wasn’t sure we’d even see a deer to shoot. An added bonus after I shot my deer I got to break out the shotgun and have a blast chasing huns, sharpies, pheasants, and jack rabbits for the rest of the trip. So how would’ve it been better if I had spent my entire trip chasing after an older age class buck to hang on my wall that I’d have a very small chance of seeing let alone harvesting and coming home with nothing?

This is the definition of tragedy of the commons.

It is in your own best interest to take a smaller md if that is what makes you happy. However if there are a lot of people like you (there are), then the resource is over used and it reduces it for everyone. So although each individual makes a rational decision for themself, it is against the collective good.
If everyone however had the attitude that they would pass on immature deer and does, then the population/age class would improve and everyone would benefit.
But if only a few people do this, the population as a whole doesn't improve and those that passed made the wrong choice. That is why we generally try to rely on governing agencies to influence this decision making so that the rational choice for the individual is also the for the collective good.

 

[Buglebrush]

I am against meat hunting mule deer in their current state out west. Just my opinion, and no judgement. I hunt Montana as a NR but won't shoot any small buck or doe. We hunters are the most important players in conservation. I encourage those shooting small 4x4's to just shoot a whitetail. Not that it's shameful to shoot a small buck, but it really does reduce harvest when we limit ourselves to mature animals only. Hoping my grandchildren may get a chance to hunt mulies someday.