Montana elk hunting is about to take a dive

[Trial153]

They better care. Out of state hunters pay the bills. I have zero interest in an outfitted hunt. This will kill DIY hunting. All these western states need to get their heads out of their butts.


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It only getting worse.
its time that NR hunters start rethinking their postions.

 

[brocksw]

This bill sucks. I used the form email from BHA and added some comments and sent out emails. They most likely wont give a shit about what a guy in NY thinks, but I figure it wouldnt hurt

They don't even seem to care what a majority MT residents think either so I wouldn't feel too bad.

 

[Trial153]

They don't even seem to care what a majority MT residents think either so I wouldn't feel too bad.

part of me is torn because quite frankly western states are limiting NR more and more every year. NR might come to quickly find out that the majority of their opportunities in the future I'm gonna come from free market-based tags. non-residents may be shooting themselves in the foot by not supporting bills like this.

 

[brocksw]

part of me is torn because quite frankly western states are limiting NR more and more every year. NR might come to quickly find out that the majority of their opportunities in the future I'm gonna come from free market-based tags. non-residents may be shooting themselves in the foot by not supporting bills like this.

Hard to believe it would ever be good to support the unregulated and uncapped sale of landowner tags. 1 way ticket to european model of hunting where it's only a white collar activity.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Puts the DIY NR hunter in quite the pickle across the west, residents want to decrease NR opportunity so they can have more opportunities and outfitters want to carve out dedicated outfitter and/or landowner tags from the NR allocation. With no advocates and no legal standing, it doesn’t paint a rosy picture for the DIY NR hunter.

That being said I can’t get behind MT’s attempt to completely commercialize and exploit a public resource such as their elk herd. That’s just not right.

 

[Trial153]

Hard to believe it would ever be good to support the unregulated and uncapped sale of landowner tags. 1 way ticket to european model of hunting where it's only a white collar activity.

in the future that may very well be the only opportunity non-residents will have.

 

[brocksw]

in the future that may very well be the only opportunity non-residents will have.

Only if we allow it (aka hunters get complacent)..... And it certainly looks hunters are getting that way.

 

[Trial153]

Only if we allow it (aka hunters get complacent)..... And it certainly looks hunters are getting that way.

We are already losing the north American model of conservation via hunters, we have had subsets of hunters carve out their own little fiefdoms. Orgs with their auction and raffle tags, outfitters with their set-asides, landowners, resident hunters lobbying to exclude non-residents at every turn.
I dont see many reasons nonresident hunters from a non-rocky mountain state should be confident in participating in hunting public land in the west in the future.

 

[brocksw]

We are already losing the north American model of conservation via hunters, we have had subsets of hunters carve out their own little fiefdoms. Orgs with their auction and raffle tags, outfitters with their set-asides, landowners, resident hunters lobbying to exclude non-residents at every turn.
I dont see many reasons nonresident hunters from a non-rocky mountain state should be confident in participating in hunting public land in the west in the future.

Certainly. We can still right the ship so to speak.

 

[Trial153]

Certainly. We can still right the ship so to speak.

I don't see that happening. But I would be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[brocksw]

I don't see that happening. But I would be happy to be proven wrong.

Uphill battle for sure. But think of all the hunters who are not involved. The hunters who talk and share opinions but don't "do". Don't support a variety of hunting causes. Don't get involved on these exact types of issues. Complacency.

 

[TheCougar]

Email sent. And boy, it was sharply worded. I can't contain my disdain any longer for the clown show that is the Galt ranch and his ilk...

 

[Trial153]

Uphill battle for sure. But think of all the hunters who are not involved. The hunters who talk and share opinions but don't "do". Don't support a variety of hunting causes. Don't get involved on these exact types of issues. Complacency.

Hunters aren't the only complacent party at this point.
our unquestioning support for these groups, org's causes and state agencies might be going more harm than good when comes to access to the resource for NR. They count on us for continued support yet when it comes to for any type of access go the resource we are held in contempt

 

[brocksw]

Hunters aren't the only complacent party at this point.
our unquestioning support for these groups, org's causes and state agencies might be going more harm than good when comes to access to the resource for NR. They count on us for continued support yet when it comes to for any type of access go the resource we are held in contempt

Could you explain what you mean further?

I'd also add, hunters need to get their own affairs in order before we can start discussing other complacent parties.

 

[TheCougar]

Hunters aren't the only complacent party at this point.
our unquestioning support for these groups, org's causes and state agencies might be going more harm than good when comes to access to the resource for NR. They count on us for continued support yet when it comes to for any type of access go the resource we are held in contempt

At this point, this is less about NR privileges and more about protecting our elk herds and your hunters who don't happen to be large landowners... which is pretty much everyone. I'd gladly trade in my nonresident hunting opportunities to preserve Montana's elk and keep wildlife management in the hands of the state where it belongs. Believe me, that's no small statement coming from me - I love elk hunting, but if there's no elk left... Someone mentioned it on an earlier post, but we are accelerating down the slope towards ending up like Europe, where the animals are the "King's Deer" in everything but name. And that really pains me. I cannot believe that Montana residents are taking this lying down - this will DECIMATE their elk populations.

 

[Isaac_SBO]

As someone who is just getting into Western hunting this is very discouraging.


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[Deadfall]

Email sent. And boy, it was sharply worded. I can't contain my disdain any longer for the clown show that is the Galt ranch and his ilk...

amen to that

 

[Deadfall]

Hunters aren't the only complacent party at this point.
our unquestioning support for these groups, org's causes and state agencies might be going more harm than good when comes to access to the resource for NR. They count on us for continued support yet when it comes to for any type of access go the resource we are held in contempt

If it makes you feel any better, resident diy guys are in same boat. The wheel seems to be pitting resident DIY and NR resident DIY guys against each other. on other side you have landowners and outfitters. Everyone acts like they rowing boats alone. Maybe its our minds playing tricks, because everyone is frustrated. IDK...Just cant give up though

 

[Deadfall]

At this point, this is less about NR privileges and more about protecting our elk herds and your hunters who don't happen to be large landowners... which is pretty much everyone. I'd gladly trade in my nonresident hunting opportunities to preserve Montana's elk and keep wildlife management in the hands of the state where it belongs. Believe me, that's no small statement coming from me - I love elk hunting, but if there's no elk left... Someone mentioned it on an earlier post, but we are accelerating down the slope towards ending up like Europe, where the animals are the "King's Deer" in everything but name. And that really pains me. I cannot believe that Montana residents are taking this lying down - this will DECIMATE their elk populations.

We are not taking it lying down. Some of us spend several hours a week doing research, sending emails, talking to reps. Our elk and deer herds are doing well in most places. Some years they are down and some years they are up. Predators have changed things some. They've also made the herds stronger as the weakest are weeded out. I'm not a proponent for predators, but they are here and not going away.

Our representatives by and large are doing a real good job of getting this nonsense worked out. What I am disappointed in, is our governor. I new going in that because he's a republican there would be some of this nonsense. I did not see the full on assault to the FWP, public lands and public land hunters. Like I said, I new there would be some, just didn't see the scale of it. It was either deal with crazy outdoor stuff, or keep a democrat in office and keep the state shut down.

As for hunters and harvest and whatever on populations. Success rates haven't changed very much. Pressure in certain areas has. For all the jibber jabber, most folks still aren't going very far or very hard. Even though in their minds they probably think they are. I see a lot of folks go out, see camps everywhere, get disgusted and upset and let it ruin their hunts. They get mad and start driving roads or running all over the countryside looking for somewhere noone else is. So be it. My brother in law is exceptionally disgruntled about the hunter numbers and how much public ground has been sold to private. We started pouring over maps today and are going to go harvest mature bulls on public land that is "high" pressure. Saturday we start glassing and poking around. What other hunters do has absolutely no bearing on what we are going to do.

Last year I got to spend a few days in the field with him and his spirits have been rejuvenated. As the article on this forum points out. Hunting is all about attitude.

Point being, if we continue to think and act like we are screwed. Then we are screwed. The opposite is also true. If we believe, think and act like we can make a difference, then we will. When, why, where, and how of it is none of our business, out of our hands. Faith without works is dead. Faith with works; good things happen to those that persevere even when they dont want too.

sorry for the diatribe. got carried away. spent to long writing to delete it..so...

 

[Deadfall]

As someone who is just getting into Western hunting this is very discouraging.


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Only if you let it be. What a golden opportunity to do some service work. Let the big fella sort out the rest..Like the song goes, what is done in the dark will be brought to the light. Stuff is just being brought to light. nothing wrond with being discouraged and frustrated from time to time. We cant afford to stay that way.