Montana (and other state) hunter orange laws out dated?

[Harvey_NW]

can't shoot your target if you never point your rifle at it.. I KNOW its Crazy

If you can't confidently identify your target, you have no business pointing a loaded firearm at it, regardless of how quick the opportunities are. That's insanely negligent. Please never hunt outside of VA.

 

[doc holiday13]

If you can't confidently identify your target, you have no business pointing a loaded firearm at it, regardless of how quick the opportunities are. That's insanely negligent. Please never hunt outside of VA.

Lemme guess. you hunt with an unloaded rifle too??

 

[mt terry d]

Binoculars should be required.

Ones that cost at least $800. Not the cheap crap

If it saves one life…..

 

[KurtR]

Note to self. Never go hunt in Virginia

 

[Harvey_NW]

Lemme guess. you hunt with an unloaded rifle too??

The majority of the time, yes. I don't chamber one until I'm either set up in position to shoot, making a stalk, or have reason to believe I might bump something in cover. Even then, I would never use my scope to identify my target. If it happens so fast my eyes can't see it and my brain can't acknowledge "deer", there was no shot opportunity.

 

[Timberline001]

The majority of the time, yes. I don't chamber one until I'm either set up in position to shoot, making a stalk, or have reason to believe I might bump something in cover. Even then, I would never use my scope to identify my target. If it happens so fast my eyes can't see it and my brain can't acknowledge "deer", there was no shot opportunity.

Same, my chamber is empty unless I’m ready to fire the majority of the time. I was taught growing up to always have a round chambered walking around but as I learned to hunt on my own I started to figure out it wasn’t necessary to me and wasn’t something I wanted to teach the kids I take hunting.

 

[Grundy53]

Lemme guess. you hunt with an unloaded rifle too??

I hunt coastal Washington which is thick. I hunt with a round chambered. Which is why I would never think of using my scope to identify a target. I always have binos.

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[Grundy53]

If I'm in the field hunting and i see movement across the field I'm gonna assume its a deer so my immediate intent would be to destroy it if its the animal i'm looking for

God forbid it's a mushroom picker or hiker...

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[300stw]

private landowners cant see you corner crossing if u dont have orange,

i think its more to see tresspassers then anything, the statistics dont show a difference
suprised all the cattle and horses in mt arent required to wear it,
all i ever hear is landowners complaining there cows or horses get shot every year

 

[dtchhuntr]

I'm all for the orange personally. Not uncommon to have multiple drives occurring in Iowa on public land with different access points. But orange shows up through the binos (not my scope...) and avoids 2 groups walking into each other.

 

[Timberline001]

Just to be clear, I am fully in support of requiring orange. To me it is equal to the safety on a gun. It is there just as a secondary measure. It shouldn’t be the determining factor that keeps you from pointing a gun at someone. No one should ever be pointing a firearm at an object that they haven’t identified.
There are a lot of people in the woods who are not hunters and are not legally required to wear orange. Even if you are on private property, a mushroom picker or or dog walker could have accidentally ended up on the property. Hunters need to do better. It is absolutely ridiculous This is still happening in this day and age.

 

[velvet muley]

Lemme guess. you hunt with an unloaded rifle too??

This kind of crazy thinking is why we read when people out hunting get shot and killed, Crazy to think some dude out there is randomly pointing his loaded rifle at every moving thing he sees in the woods without identifying it.

 

[Pony Soldier]

Years ago my hunting partner said the greatest safety feature in hunting was the antler requirement. It forces you to take your time to determine your target for legality. Not only having antlers but determining if they have enough (4 inch browtine or none for a cow). Snap shots and noise shots just went away.

I remember an accidental shooting 50 years ago when two gents from the east coast came hunting in Montana. One got up early to take a dump and his partner shot him in the butt when he saw the flash of the toilet paper as his partner was wiping his butt.

With that in mind for many years I would die a new set of underwear red or pink to limit my risk from snap shooters. Even on my horses, I usually have an orange saddle blanket and my orange riding jacket tied behind to cantle.

I remember with great distinction riding down a Forest Service trail and as we broke over a little rise there were two idiots from Washington behind a log, with their safeties off preparing to shoot us as we broke cover. They were only 40 yds away.

As wired as they were, it was a miracle they didn't shoot - color be damned.

As a very experienced hunter, I usually watch for a while and pick my shot. Its tough to teach that to a green hunter without close mentorship.

I also remember in the 70s, a NR hunter that shot a pack horse at less than 50 yds through the orange panniers. The packer was wearing an orange slicker.

These experiences have left me cautious to paranoid of riding or walking in the open. The orange vest law has diminished the accidents and now that we are used to it, I think things would get ugly if it went away. I have killed a lot of game at less than a 100 yds wearing one.

 

[mtnbiker208]

 

[mtnbiker208]

here is some blaze oragne under wear!

Years ago my hunting partner said the greatest safety feature in hunting was the antler requirement. It forces you to take your time to determine your target for legality. Not only having antlers but determining if they have enough (4 inch browtine or none for a cow). Snap shots and noise shots just went away.

I remember an accidental shooting 50 years ago when two gents from the east coast came hunting in Montana. One got up early to take a dump and his partner shot him in the butt when he saw the flash of the toilet paper as his partner was wiping his butt.

With that in mind for many years I would die a new set of underwear red or pink to limit my risk from snap shooters. Even on my horses, I usually have an orange saddle blanket and my orange riding jacket tied behind to cantle.

I remember with great distinction riding down a Forest Service trail and as we broke over a little rise there were two idiots from Washington behind a log, with their safeties off preparing to shoot us as we broke cover. They were only 40 yds away.

As wired as they were, it was a miracle they didn't shoot - color be damned.

As a very experienced hunter, I usually watch for a while and pick my shot. Its tough to teach that to a green hunter without close mentorship.

I also remember in the 70s, a NR hunter that shot a pack horse at less than 50 yds through the orange panniers. The packer was wearing an orange slicker.

These experiences have left me cautious to paranoid of riding or walking in the open. The orange vest law has diminished the accidents and now that we are used to it, I think things would get ugly if it went away. I have killed a lot of game at less than a 100 yds wearing one.

 

[Deadfall]

I dont mind the 400 inch orange requirement in montana.
Pretty tough to find an orange vest that isn't 400. Either way wardens are easy with it. Wear an orange vest.
I dont see what big deal is. I even strap orange to my pack

 

[ElkArcher918]

This one should get some people fired up. I was recently chatting with a buddy that’s going on a hunt in Montana and he said he had to pick up an orange vest and hat to meet their blaze orange requirements.
That surprised me, Montana is historically a state pretty proud of their personal freedoms and self sufficiency and it REQUIRES orange?
Now i don’t have anything against orange or anyone that chooses to wear it, more power to ya.
I own plenty, i usually wear it upland bird hunting or in more dynamic close range moving target activities.
But big game hunting in Idaho in oregon, i never wear orange, most don’t, some do. No one seems to care. And I’ve never felt unsafe.
So i did some digging and man…. People are pretty serious about their orange. Lots of open threats, talk of “signing your own death warrant” if you don’t wear it, being an IDIOT! A cry baby, don’t hunt here then, natural selection will weed these people out, it’s not hard to do, ect. Like people not wearing orange are actively being shot in mass amounts every year. people even turn in people not wearing orange. like some how it affects their personal safety?
Anyways, what i didn’t see anyone talking about was statistics, is orange really that effective? So i did some digging, looking specifically at Oregon, Idaho, and Montana. And what i found was there isn’t really a discernible difference. Most accidents are self inflicted, poor gun handling, or just plain stupid. I couldn’t really find any recent specific cases of mistaken identity. Although i did find a case in Oregon from 2017 where a hunter was sitting on a slope and a kid shot at his orange hat because he thought it was a clay pigeon.
Most examples i found were from the east coast mostly in flat thick wooded areas or bird hunts.
So this begs the question… is orange really necessary? If you believe it is why? And why do you feel like everyone needs to participate?
If you don’t think it’s necessary but you live in a state that requires it what do you do? Just not wear it? Seems like the fine in Montana is somewhere between 10-20 dollars. Cheaper than a vest and a hat.
Although i know this will get some people fired up my goal isn’t to create an argument or tell you you’re wrong. I am genuinely curious where all of the passion comes from and would like to genuinely hear your opinions and FACTS that have made you a strong supporter of orange. Please save the angry lectures, i understand the general idea behind wearing orange. Thanks guys!


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To each is own, right? Even if it was not a State requirement I would wear at least some blaze orange during firearms season. You just can't realistically assume that everyone is as responsible as you and I. Personally, whether I wear orange or not it doesn't seem to matter to the animals I hunt. There's always wild game in my freezer. I don't feel that wearing orange is that big of a deal, drawing a good elk tag is!

 

[Lee_R]

If I'm in the field hunting and i see movement across the field I'm gonna assume its a deer so my immediate intent would be to destroy it if its the animal i'm looking for

I'm glad I'll never set foot in, let alone hunt in Virginia.

 

[Fowl Play]

Devils advocate here... to all the guys saying you should never point your firearm at something you have not 100% identified as a legal game animal. What is your process for confirming a legal animal?

Do you ALWAYS set up the spotter every... single... time... you see an animal in the distance to confirm it is a legal animal OR do you sometimes use your rifle scope to judge the animal before taking the shot? If you see a buck walking through a small shot opportunity window, are you passing on the shot opportunity because you do not have time to break out the spotting scope or binoculars? If you have a B tag, how are you confirming that the animal is in fact a doe and not a small buck?

EVERY SINGLE HUNTER is responsible for their shot and what is behind it, there is NO EXCUSE for pulling that trigger without 100% confirming your target. But I do think there is a gray area in ACCIDENTALLY raising your rifle on something you thought was a game animal. Mistaken identities CAN happen, especially when people choose to wear colors that resemble the game animal in season (buckskin jackets during deer season, black jackets during bear/boar seasons, etc.).

I think you are doing yourself a favor ensuring that you are immediately identifiable as not a game animal.
At least an orange hat during rifle seasons is a good idea. Should someone accidentally raise a rifle on you.... no.... but can you minimize the chances of that... yes.

 

[Marshfly]

Devils advocate here... to all the guys saying you should never point your firearm at something you have not 100% identified as a legal game animal. What is your process for confirming a legal animal?

Do you ALWAYS set up the spotter every... single... time... you see an animal in the distance to confirm it is a legal animal OR do you sometimes use your rifle scope to judge the animal before taking the shot? If you see a buck walking through a small shot opportunity window, are you passing on the shot opportunity because you do not have time to break out the spotting scope or binoculars? If you have a B tag, how are you confirming that the animal is in fact a doe and not a small buck?

EVERY SINGLE HUNTER is responsible for their shot and what is behind it, there is NO EXCUSE for pulling that trigger without 100% confirming your target. But I do think there is a gray area in ACCIDENTALLY raising your rifle on something you thought was a game animal. Mistaken identities CAN happen, especially when people choose to wear colors that resemble the game animal in season (buckskin jackets during deer season, black jackets during bear/boar seasons, etc.).

I think you are doing yourself a favor ensuring that you are immediately identifiable as not a game animal.
At least an orange hat during rifle seasons is a good idea. Should someone accidentally raise a rifle on you.... no.... but can you minimize the chances of that... yes.

Being that you can identify a deer or elk from a mile with 10x binoculars there is zero reason to use your scope until you are ready to kill something. It takes 10 seconds to pull binos from the harness, identify the animal and put them back in.

Throwing up your rifle at what you THINK MIGHT be an animal is exactly the problem. The default should be not shooting.

That said, I like the orange hat requirement. Plenty visible and easy to deal with. A vest under a pack and bino harness is such a pain in the butt.