Mono Wound Channels vs Match Bullets

[Sundodger]

That cartridge hasn’t been invented yet.
The fastest I pushed mono’s was 3450 mv, 3400 impact velocity, and it was nowhere even close to the tissue damage that I get from an ELD m at 2200 impact velocity.

I am your people. I just realize your listing criteria out that won't result in "plotted lines crossing". I'm not really sure how it isn't clear that a bullet with bent petals and frontal area pushing through an animal will NEVER have the same effect on tissue as one that has fragmented and is cutting through tissue in tension due to the hydrostatic shock thus damaging more tissue in a pattern a petal peeling mono will never replicate.

This isn't bagging on monos, I hunt monos, I just accept what they are and how they perform and deploy them accordingly.

I suspect it might not be exactly where you guys have been looking.


Been doing more muzzy hunting in recent years, taken 7 animals in the range of 20 yards (1600ish FPS impact velocity) to 125 yards (1200ish FPS impact velocity) using an interesting bullet the federal bor lock. It’s copper with a sliding sealing skirt of sorts, but with what looks relief cuts in the bullet to facilitate disruption. At 20 yards it is a little too destructive for my taste, losing more rib meat than I like. At the end of it’s supersonic range (just before it goes transonic) it’s pretty great, caliber sized entrance and turns the lungs completely to liquid and jelly with very little meat damage. I also have recovered most of the bullets.


If you read my posts in this thread I have actually said nothing about monos, just talking about the bullets along the continuum of destructiveness of which mono’s lay. While I have hunted with monos, I don’t get religious attachment to bullet designs. I was just hoping labeling them projectile X and Y would help people.

 

[Macintosh]

No fragments=no large hole. As a theoretical excercise, sure, I'm certain you could accomplish the same thing (or effectively the same thing) with a solid mono...I just think no one would want to use one becasue it would knock the crap out of even the uber-manly "recoil doesnt affect me" crowd, it would be expensive, and since the existing options work so well already it would be functionally irrelevant. I've used some mono ML bullets that expand pretty wide at low velociy...but they still dont create such a big hole as a fragmenting 223, and they also recoil a heack of a lot more, have crappy BC,s, etc. What that says to me is that if you are looking for a large wound channel, regardless of what the bullet is made of, a bullet that stays together by design is probably not the best way to arrive at that result unless you enjoy having your fillings knocked out by recoil.

I also vehemently disagree with the poster who said rather categorically that monos suck and are a waste of time--to me that is simply false becasue it's easily proven that they kill reliably at ranges that most hunters shoot game at, and they have advantages that I prefer, ie less meat loss. Dont confuse "not for me" with "not for thee". I dont get shot opportunities in the open hardly ever, and not many to begin with, so its simply not possible to be so selective with shots as to not hit a shoulder some significant-enough % of the time. I strongly prefer to not waste the meat. If others have different priorities or situations, fine--but that in no way renders them a universal waste of time. not everyone WANTS a fist+ sized hole in their critters.

 

[WaWox]

Sometimes mono's can do unpredictable things. This is the front shoulder of a large bull elk and i already cut some pieces of destroyed meat off. The 139 gr lrx (500 yard shot) entered the bone, turned it into a grenade that destroyed 50% of everything above the shank, and then went into the lungs. Full expansion too, found the bullet in the opposite shoulder

 

[Tmac]

This isn't bagging on monos, I hunt monos, I just accept what they are and how they perform and deploy them accordingly.

Pretty much sums up how I feel. I’ve had great results with mono’s, TTSX and LRX, deployed accordingly. I’ve had great results with 77 TMK, deployed accordingly. I’ve had great results with every bullet I’ve used hunting, deployed accordingly.

It’s a poor workman that blames their tools.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I suspect it might not be exactly where you guys have been looking.


Been doing more muzzy hunting in recent years, taken 7 animals in the range of 20 yards (1600ish FPS impact velocity) to 125 yards (1200ish FPS impact velocity) using an interesting bullet the federal bor lock. It’s copper with a sliding sealing skirt of sorts, but with what looks relief cuts in the bullet to facilitate disruption. At 20 yards it is a little too destructive for my taste, losing more rib meat than I like. At the end of it’s supersonic range (just before it goes transonic) it’s pretty great, caliber sized entrance and turns the lungs completely to liquid and jelly with very little meat damage. I also have recovered most of the bullets.


If you read my posts in this thread I have actually said nothing about monos, just talking about the bullets along the continuum of destructiveness of which mono’s lay. While I have hunted with monos, I don’t get religious attachment to bullet designs. I was just hoping labeling them projectile X and Y would help people.

The OP specifically asked about monos vs lead core and gave the example of what caliber TTSX would equate what a 77 TMK does. Using X and Y in a thread already specifically discussing those things would have implied you were still participating in the topic of the thread vs a complete tangent.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Sometimes mono's can do unpredictable things. This is the front shoulder of a large bull elk and i already cut some pieces of destroyed meat off. The 139 gr lrx (500 yard shot) entered the bone, turned it into a grenade that destroyed 50% of everything above the shank, and then went into the lungs. Full expansion too, found the bullet in the opposite shoulder

That isn't unpredictable, that happens when bullets hit bones and fragment pieces of bones (which act like a fragmenting bullet at that point).

 

[WaWox]

Ok unpredictable was the wrong choice of words, I admit.

Let's say unintended and certainly more meat loss than I wanted or would have predicted.

 

[mtnbound]

I do not think any caliber TTSX running at 2200fps will match the tissue damage of the TMK at the same velocity. The bullet construction and designed function are not comparable between the two. I hope your efforts to get the 223 legalized will be successful.

In my reply to the OP's question about the TTSX, I somehow attached @Sundodger to it; that was not my intent, as his post was irrelevant to my answer to the OP.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

I don’t think the two wounds from a lead and nonfrangible mono can be equated on some scale. They’re just different. What I see with my ttsx wounds are small narrow wounds in the meat unless it hits bone (then of course there’s a lot of downward), but it’s like the lungs have gone through a blender. As if the temporary stretch cavity pushed much of the lung tissue beyond its elastic limit causing massive wounding far larger than the wounding shown in meat before or after.

 

[mtnbound]

True, yet both animals will die quickly and easily. Just one without excessive meat loss and lead spray. Why do we want to destroy our food?

Copper bullets do kill, but it's hard to support that they are as effective as cup/core bullets when folks who use them or companies that market copper bullets state they cause "less meat loss" or "reduce excessive tissue damage." If copper bullets were marketed as "less likely to cause a fatal wound", would anyone use them?

If I were to use copper bullets, I would focus on a high-shoulder shot to try to destroy the CNS.

With proper meat harvesting, I am not concerned with "lead spray".

 

[KHntr]

I was thinking about this yesterday. I grew up shooting a 6mm with 100 gr psp’s in the ‘80’s, and my dad and grandpa (who was a major gun guy) were always coaching me to stay off shoulders (which was tough as a kid as I grew up jumping shooting whitetails). I can remember my dad saying once when I was around 10 or 12 that he saw a lot more damage from those little 100 gr “grenades” than he did from the 180’s he used in his 300 wm.

I transitioned to mono’s in the late ‘90’s in a 264 wm and later a 300 Ultra, and at some point started shooting shoulders. With everything. And that was to anchor stuff relatively close to where they were initially shot. Maybe 15 years ago I started using a 243AI with 105 Amax’s for deer, but still shot shoulders. Then a 223AI… ditto.

One thing I have noticed over the last 44 years after killing a lot of critters, stuff shot with hard bullets (mono’s or bonded) needs big bones broke to keep them close to where they were shot, and exits are handy for tracking. And sometimes they are still gasping when you walk up to them and need a finisher.
Stuff shot with softer bullets tends to be REAL close to where you shot them. And it doesn’t matter if there’s an exit, because they are dead right there, whether you broke shoulders or not.

Anecdotal info for sure, but softer bullets kill stuff faster.