Modern 338 Federal?

[35WhelenAI]

I haven't worked with .338 bore specifically. With that said, when I moved up to a .358 bore (Whelen) from a .308. (300 Win Mag and '06) the difference in visible impact on game was noticeable. Frontal diameter makes that difference, IMO, and I would absolutely be a fan of a .338 bore on a standard size case (338-06, .338 Fedral) if I was in the market for another rifle.

 

[prm]

^^What he said. When a .338 bullet hits there is a visible and audible difference.

 

[Mike D Texas]

For me, it was the versatility & gain in velocity over a .308 that sold it. I reload, so factory ammo didn't enter into my equation, although I do understand its a concern.

Forget about any kind of long range shooting for a minute, so we can basically ignore BCs & wind drift becomes less of a factor. Look at a 180gr bullet from a .308. Realistically you're going to get 2400fps. The .358 can do that with a 250gr. My 220 load is hitting 2540, the 200gr at 2650. I can get almost 2900fps from 180s........a 500fps pickup with the same weight bullet over a .308 is significant. As is the damage it does. It's the one cartridge I've owned that so far, hasn't had any walkers. Everything has been a bang-flop. Not to say that's guaranteed, but I'm 7 for 7 on deer with it from 15 to 197yds.

You can’t use a blanket statement like that on .308/180 velocity. My 20” factory R700 5R Milspec shoots 175 Bergers at 2800fps.


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[JAC8504]

I have a 338 federal for sale

 

[rickyw]

I like my 35 Whelen and have been able to find factory ammo for it

 

[35WhelenAI]

You can’t use a blanket statement like that on .308/180 velocity. My 20” factory R700 5R Milspec shoots 175 Bergers at 2800fps.


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Blanket statements using published data are a legit ballpark to play in. What I see in the post being referenced is fairly well established across the reloading industry.

Is that Berger load data giving your velocity with a 20" bbl, or is that the load you have worked up to?

 

[Mike D Texas]

Blanket statements using published data are a legit ballpark to play in. What I see in the post being referenced is fairly well established across the reloading industry.

Is that Berger load data giving your velocity with a 20" bbl, or is that the load you have worked up to?

That is an actual chronographs verified load over several hundred rounds fired.


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[35WhelenAI]

That is an actual chronographs verified load over several hundred rounds fired.


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Yes, it is understood that is the speed from your gun. I too have verified thousands and thousands of rounds over the chronograph over the years.

Berger supplies data for that cartridge and that bullet. I do not know what their charge weights, barrel lengths and velocities are. I'll cut to the chase. A .308 Win at 2800 FPS for any 175 grain bullet out of any reasonable length barrel is pushing some pretty good pressure. Does your charge weight and your velocity in your load with your gun's 20" bbl coincide to any extent with Berger data?

 

[wyosam]

I am a huge fan of both the 300 and 338 RCM's. Much of my love for both of these rounds is for the rifles Ruger built for them. 20 inch barrels, short action, factory iron sights, left handed as well, and a slightly shorter LOP. These results in a exceptional rifle for hunting in the woods.
If a person was tasked to develop the perfect rifle/caliber for Alaska hunting it would be the 338 RCM.
338 RPM shows promise but the cost of ammo could keep many hunters looking elsewhere.

It’s awful close to the 338-284 I’m working on to be my primary for most hunts up here. If I had a magnum bolt face, the 338RCM would have certainly been cheaper to buy dies for.


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[z987k]

It’s awful close to the 338-284 I’m working on to be my primary for most hunts up here. If I had a magnum bolt face, the 338RCM would have certainly been cheaper to buy dies for.


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284 brass is available. 338RCM isn't and likely never will be. 338RCM is the ballistic equivalent of 338-06, which, while on a long action, will outlive the RCM by 100 years or so, so I'd give it the nod. I'm guessing the 338-284 is right in that ballpark to?

 

[z987k]

You can’t use a blanket statement like that on .308/180 velocity. My 20” factory R700 5R Milspec shoots 175 Bergers at 2800fps.


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There's pretty much no way you aren't overpressue with that load. Which is fine if you want to run it that way, but you can't say a 308w can do that within spec.

 

[Luke S]

I bought a .358 and liked it. For someone considering a 338 Fed or 358 Win. I can make a few observations.
I like my 358 with traditional bullets comparedto a .308 with traditional bullets. But... all the pictures of huge exits from a 6.5 Creedmoor have me thinking. I wonder if a heavy ELDX or ELDM bullet would do basically the same thing in a .308? In that case I'd go 308. Hopefully I can test it this year.
If you look at a .338 Federal there are better long range bullet options compared to the. 358. But once you go there the.308 looks better.
I guess they all have their place but if modern bullets are as good as they claim I think a .308 is all I need. If I could be convinced it would drop a brown bear reliably I'd be thinking about selling a couple bigger rifles.

 

[wyosam]

284 brass is available. 338RCM isn't and likely never will be. 338RCM is the ballistic equivalent of 338-06, which, while on a long action, will outlive the RCM by 100 years or so, so I'd give it the nod. I'm guessing the 338-284 is right in that ballpark to?

Yeah, probably a touch behind the -06, but close enough to not matter. Lots of good 284 brass, and I like to be different.


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[z987k]

I bought a .358 and liked it. For someone considering a 338 Fed or 358 Win. I can make a few observations.
I like my 358 with traditional bullets comparedto a .308 with traditional bullets. But... all the pictures of huge exits from a 6.5 Creedmoor have me thinking. I wonder if a heavy ELDX or ELDM bullet would do basically the same thing in a .308? In that case I'd go 308. Hopefully I can test it this year.
If you look at a .338 Federal there are better long range bullet options compared to the. 358. But once you go there the.308 looks better.
I guess they all have their place but if modern bullets are as good as they claim I think a .308 is all I need. If I could be convinced it would drop a brown bear reliably I'd be thinking about selling a couple bigger rifles.

It will, but that's probably the only thing I wouldn't hunt with a 308. I wouldn't take a 358 win either though.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Good stuff, folks. I swapped to a 35 Whelen AI 22 seasons ago from a 300 Win Mag. I looked at the reality of my hunting and didn't need the "potential" for a 500 yd shot. Doing my own loading, the Whelen AI pushes a 200 gr TTSX safely to well over 2900 fps using standard Whelen published data to start and working up out of a 25" bbl. Similar to what the 300 Win Mag achieves from its 26" bbl, however the Whelen uses literally 10-15 grains less powder to do it.

The medium bores are very efficient in many aspects, not the least of which is how well they drop game with the larger frontal diameter that flat hammers game.

 

[z987k]

Good stuff, folks. I swapped to a 35 Whelen AI 22 seasons ago from a 300 Win Mag. I looked at the reality of my hunting and didn't need the "potential" for a 500 yd shot. Doing my own loading, the Whelen AI pushes a 200 gr TTSX safely to well over 2900 fps using standard Whelen published data to start and working up out of a 25" bbl. Similar to what the 300 Win Mag achieves from its 26" bbl, however the Whelen uses literally 10-15 grains less powder to do it.

The medium bores are very efficient in many aspects, not the least of which is how well they drop game with the larger frontal diameter that flat hammers game.

Yup. The bigger the bore, the more efficient a cartridge is from an internal ballistics perspective. Just have to balance that with the much less efficient external ballistics and what you're using the gun for.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Agree, less efficient ballistics in a medium bore. However, velocity/gr. of bullet weight/per gr. of powder is pretty good.

.338 helps to balance the ballistic inefficiencies to an extent vs .358, however the higher ballistic coefficient is offset by lower expansion ratio and therefore less velocity. Which puts both bores in the same ballpark.

With that, my 35 AI is 400 yard gun on any day of the week which is 40 yds short of a quarter mile, how do I survive? I say that tongue in cheek as I have never wanted for more in 30 years of big game hunting in the west.

The long range hunting game does a huge disservice to hunters entering the sport because the internet tells them that's what they need to be successful. Thank goodness, that will keep folks from hunting my unit out west as shots will "only" be out to 400 yards where I've taken more elk and mule deer than most guys that will read this can dream of. They'd be bored if they came there.

 

[z987k]

Agree, less efficient ballistics in a medium bore. However, velocity/gr. of bullet weight/per gr. of powder is pretty good.

.338 helps to balance the ballistic inefficiencies to an extent vs .358, however the higher ballistic coefficient is offset by lower expansion ratio and therefore less velocity. Which puts both bores in the same ballpark.

With that, my 35 AI is 400 yard gun on any day of the week which is 40 yds short of a quarter mile, how do I survive? I say that tongue in cheek as I have never wanted for more in 30 years of big game hunting in the west.

The long range hunting game does a huge disservice to hunters entering the sport because the internet tells them that's what they need to be successful. Thank goodness, that will keep folks from hunting my unit out west as shots will "only" be out to 400 yards where I've taken more elk and mule deer than most guys that will read this can dream of. They'd be bored if they came there.

The only reason I like the 338 bore better is because there are a lot more bullet choices. Even in the less than 225gr category. Lots of stuff in 225, 210, 200, 180, even 165gr for 338.
Even some relatively good BC stuff at 200gr that gets the Fed out to about 400-450 yards if you're handloading stuff that isn't available commercially... well nothing is available commercially in 338fed.

 

[35WhelenAI]

If you look at the component bullets available, there plenty for any .358 chambering out there. There are more for the .338, however is it a deal breaker with respect to practical use in a hunting gun? I have my reservations on that.

There are 200, 225 Accubond, 225, 250 Partition, 180 and 200 Barnes TTSX, 225 TSX, Hornady 200, 250 in both Spire point and round nose, Sierra 200 pro hunter round nose, 225 game king BTSP, 225 Speer 180, 250 Hot Cor, 10 component bullets from Hammer in all manner of weights. Then there are the Swift bullets in a couple different weights. .357 pistol bullets are great to load for plinking practice and are too numerous to name.

With that said, weight itself isn't what it used to be, per se. When there were only cup and core bullets, a heavier bullet for a given caliber would penetrate more reliably because it wouldn't turn itself inside out to the point it was like driving a flat washer. Heavier bullets couldn't achieve the high muzzle velocities of the lighter ones, so sectional density was de facto hand-in-hand with lower velocity. From that, sectional density became a performance criteria in the industry for most of a century. When controlled expansion bullets came on the scene, sectional density became less relevant, and it comes down to expansion velocity, which has always been a criteria.

 

[DJL2]

If you look at the component bullets available, there plenty for any .358 chambering out there. There are more for the .338, however is it a deal breaker with respect to practical use in a hunting gun? I have my reservations on that.

There are 200, 225 Accubond, 225, 250 Partition, 180 and 200 Barnes TTSX, 225 TSX, Hornady 200, 250 in both Spire point and round nose, Sierra 200 pro hunter round nose, 225 game king BTSP, 225 Speer 180, 250 Hot Cor, 10 component bullets from Hammer in all manner of weights. Then there are the Swift bullets in a couple different weights. .357 pistol bullets are great to load for plinking practice and are too numerous to name.

Hawk bullets are out there for the taking in a variety of calibers - you can choose you weight, profile/shape, and jacket thickness... pretty sweet options to have, honestly.

I keep thinking about a medium bore... don't "need" it necessarily, but I do want one. Partly it's because they're good in their own right. Partly it's because shooting one well demands more of the shooter.

I do wish that the 33 Nos and 338 RPM were spec'd for full length magnum actions - 3.34" COAL really strangles both of those. Maybe one day I'll wake up to a .35 RPM or a standardized .35 Sambar with factory ammo using "modern" bullets... but probably not anytime soon.