ammo selection for elk/deer

[Q_Sertorius]

So is it velocity or is it bullet design that matters?

Both.

The bullet has to get the animal within the right velocity range for it to perform “as designed” in a consistent manner.

Some bullets are softer - they upset more easily at lower impact velocities - than tougher bullets do.

The folks recommending basic Federal Bluebox or Remington CoreLokt for a .308 are making excellent recommendations for the animals in question. The cup-and-core bullets used in these will perform reliably at .308 velocities up to 400 yards.

The important thing is to be absolutely proficient with your weapon and your other hunting skills. Being able to read a map, knowing your animals’ habits and preferred habitat, how to hunt the terrain, how to use the wind, etc., will give you more and better shot opportunities. Then and only then does shooting matter, but that one is easy to practice in the offseason. And then you will need your hunting skills to recover the animal.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[6mm Remington]

165 is a good grain. Use nosler partition and call it a day.

or 165 gr. Accubond

 

[roadrunner]

Both.

The bullet has to get the animal within the right velocity range for it to perform “as designed” in a consistent manner.

Some bullets are softer - they upset more easily at lower impact velocities - than tougher bullets do.

The folks recommending basic Federal Bluebox or Remington CoreLokt for a .308 are making excellent recommendations for the animals in question. The cup-and-core bullets used in these will perform reliably at .308 velocities up to 400 yards.

The important thing is to be absolutely proficient with your weapon and your other hunting skills. Being able to read a map, knowing your animals’ habits and preferred habitat, how to hunt the terrain, how to use the wind, etc., will give you more and better shot opportunities. Then and only then does shooting matter, but that one is easy to practice in the offseason. And then you will need your hunting skills to recover the animal.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ oTime.

I got roasted one time by the so-called RS "experts" when I said bullet design is the only thing that makes the Godsend 77 gr tmk a viable option in a sub 6mm offering.

I'm sure Mr. Giggles will respond with a laugh emoji below...

 

[akmerle]

At <300yds, basically any modern hunting bullet will work if you do your job. Grab a box of a bunch of different offerings, and your gun will show you what it prefers.

I am partial to Hornady ELDX bullets, and been filling my freezer with those bullets from various rifles for a few years now with universal great terminal performance.

My 16" Sig Cross groups the 178g ELDX better than anything else I have shot thru it. Also makes holdovers extremely simple with a 200yd zero. 300yds is right at 1mil, 400yds is 2mils, and 500yds is just over 3mils. Anything past 500yds and my impact velocity is too low for reliable expansion with ELDX bullets.

 

[Jack321]

How much energy does a broadhead-tipped arrow transfer into an elk?

Cute.

I knew someone would ask the apple and oranges comparison thinking bullets and broadheads are the same.

I can press my thumb against my tipped bullets pretty hard and not get cut. I do the same thing with a properly sharpened broadhead and I have a bloody mess on my hands. Apples and oranges.

Not to mention, outside of putting an arrow kn the spine of a deer/elk, a broadhead won't make an elk go bang-flop like a bullet can. (Recognize I said CAN.) So different sides of the same coin.

 

[Skieswalker12]

Thanks guys, that's a lot of info to think about! I guess I'm going to take a look at the nosler partition and the accubond, the main reason I guess the cup and core are likely to damage more meat? plus the majority of people here recommending the bonded bullet.

 

[RockAndSage]

Cute.

I knew someone would ask the apple and oranges comparison thinking bullets and broadheads are the same.

I can press my thumb against my tipped bullets pretty hard and not get cut. I do the same thing with a properly sharpened broadhead and I have a bloody mess on my hands. Apples and oranges.

Not to mention, outside of putting an arrow kn the spine of a deer/elk, a broadhead won't make an elk go bang-flop like a bullet can. (Recognize I said CAN.) So different sides of the same coin.

Thank you, sweetie. You're cute too.

Perhaps you can all share with us how much energy a .22LR needs to kill an elk?

 

[RockAndSage]

Thanks guys, that's a lot of info to think about! I guess I'm going to take a look at the nosler partition and the accubond, the main reason I guess the cup and core are likely to damage more meat? plus the majority of people here recommending the bonded bullet.

You're fine with just about any expanding bullet. Bonded is conventional wisdom, and isn't necessarily "right" or "wrong". Match, and traditional cup-and-core come apart more and do damage a bit differently than the ploughing mushroom of a good bonded, or a copper going with sufficient speed. Just know the advantages and limitations each, choose your shots accordingly, and remember that shot-placement trumps all.

 

[Jack321]

Thank you, sweetie. You're cute too.

Perhaps you can all share with us how much energy a .22LR needs to kill an elk?

Unfortunately .22s are illegal to hunt elk with. And even if they were, still wouldn't use one.

Lots of questions for a guy who seems to know everything.

 

[RockAndSage]

Unfortunately .22s are illegal to hunt elk with. And even if they were, still wouldn't use one.

Lots of questions for a guy who seems to know everything.

And if you had to use a .22lr? How would you kill that elk?

 

[Jack321]

And if you had to use a .22lr? How would you kihypothetical.

I guess I'd use a drone then if we're talking hypotheticals, so I could sit in the truck all warm and toasty like the Ukrainians are doing with their drones.

 

[S-3 ranch]

130gr barns ttsx is pretty formidable on elk if mono is your thing
150 or 180 Norma oryx is a great bonded choice
175 terminal ascent

I don’t like a match bullet on large game , because they are very explosive
And a slightly bad shot will not drive through to the vitals for a quartering shot
Yes they work if you have a perfect shot, but imo it’s hunting and perfect doesn’t present itself every time

 

[mtnbound]

Thanks guys, that's a lot of info to think about! I guess I'm going to take a look at the nosler partition and the accubond, the main reason I guess the cup and core are likely to damage more meat? plus the majority of people here recommending the bonded bullet.

Also, look at the Federal Fusion 165gr, and the Hornady 178gr ELDX.

 

[LongWayAround]

Buy as much ammo as you can afford and shoot your gun from field positions.

That will make a much bigger difference in your success than which projectile hits an animal inside of 300yd.

Palmetto State has a bunch of offerings for ~$1/round. Buy a bunch and shoot.

For hunting, figure out something that groups well and send it. You can probably set a maximum point blank range zero for your intended distance.

 

[Shawn_Guinn]

How much energy does a broadhead-tipped arrow transfer into an elk?

Different modes of action, my broadhead needs momentum not kinetic energy to carry it through tissue creating hemorrhaging and ultimately killing the animal through blood loss. My bullet is creating shock and tissue destruction it needs energy to keep penetrating while it expands creating havok is how I always think about it. And we can have much longer angrier threads on arrow weight, broadhead design, foc, draw weight, fletching design-count and helical ect ect ect. My buddy has killed a lot of elk with a 308 inside 300 yards OP you’ll be fine shoot the bullet that groups best out if your gun and shoot em in the lungs.

 

[Rich M]

Thanks guys, that's a lot of info to think about! I guess I'm going to take a look at the nosler partition and the accubond, the main reason I guess the cup and core are likely to damage more meat? plus the majority of people here recommending the bonded bullet.

This is a tough crowd for basic bullet questions. Too many hard core opinions and folks who cant agree that a remington core loct can kill a deer, which you know is a proven bullet.

The bonded bullets are supposed to be tougher than standard cup and core. Partition has a partition.

With a 165 gr bullet, a lot of the nuances go away. For deer, any bullet will work. Elk are tougher so a bonded or partition bullet will add an extra measure for penetration.

 

[Kaleb]

Cute.

I knew someone would ask the apple and oranges comparison thinking bullets and broadheads are the same.

I can press my thumb against my tipped bullets pretty hard and not get cut. I do the same thing with a properly sharpened broadhead and I have a bloody mess on my hands. Apples and oranges.

Not to mention, outside of putting an arrow kn the spine of a deer/elk, a broadhead won't make an elk go bang-flop like a bullet can. (Recognize I said CAN.) So different sides of the same coin.

Bang flop has do with POI. You have to hit them in a “bang flop place” to disrupt their CNS. Destroying heart or lungs is as deadly as it gets but doesn’t have a reason to make them fall down at the shot unless bone or bullet fragments get into their bang flop stuff.

I don’t call it hunting but I live in an area where we can kill a lot of deer and even more on crop damage tags. I don’t shoot near as many as some here but enough to see more deer die than just normal hunting situations. A 223 with a 75gr amax to the shoulder makes them fall down. Even below your 700 energy number. Larger bullets and chamberings with more energy to the lungs and they make a death dash. I shoot them in the lungs because I’m mostly a meat hunter although I don’t really consider most of my doings hunting.

By shooting small amounts of game and lots of reading and thinking the energy thing makes sense. By killing a lot of animals and seeing what the bullets do it seems to mean less and less. Like Q and others have said it’s bullet type and velocity not energy.

 

[def90]

Hello, I am going to make my first attempt at elk & deer this year in the Idaho panhandle. I recently got my first rifle in 308 Win and have been looking at ammo. I am considering 2 options, but I wanted to run it by people with experience. I was looking at Federal Premium Vital-Shok Trophy Bonded Tip .308 Winchester 165 Grain vs Federal Premium Berger Hybrid Hunter .308 Winchester 168 Grain.

I have no plans on taking a shot beyond 300 yards and honestly probably shorter at <200 yd. I plan on spending the next couple of months getting comfortable with the rifle as getting to know my limits, this is why I was looking at these 2 options as being more affordable. However, if these rounds would be a poor choice or unethical, I would suck it up and buy a more expensive round.

Buy a box of both go to the range and shoot it all and then use whichever your rifle shoots better. Yes, ammo even with the same weight bullet and load can and will group differently out of the same rifle.