Moa vs hunting?

[pathnz]

ES is a bad measurement , use SD to talk about velocity consistency.

10-12 is standard for good components with no special treatment.

 

[Marbles]

I think that can be cartridge and component dependent. But I'd take a load that repeatedly does .6" for 10 shots with an ES of 75 over a 1.5" load with an ES of 15.

The key is process markers cannot be used as a replacement for good results. Results always win, process markers are just a guide in getting to results. Sub 1.5 MOA is all I need (from a large sample). For either of those, I would consider other factors as well in load selection (bullet, pressure, Etc). Well, I hope I would, sometimes number just make me happy.

My point really was that ES can be smaller for large samples even without an intensive reloading process. That was a 243 using Starline brass so not exactly premo components.

I have similar results in 223. Brass is Federal.

Some people would certainly chase smaller SD and ES for both my examples. For the ranges those rifles stay above 1800 fps, doing so would be wasting time. Which, being honest, it is cheaper to waste time on RS debating things that don't matter than burning components.

 

[Air Bear]

How much time and money does it take to go from a 1 MOA group to a 1/2 MOA group?

Not from 16 to 8, or 8 to 4, or 4 to 2, or 2 to 1. Those are all easily done with modern methods and equipment. But once you are at or close to 1 MOA, the time and money needed to halve it again goes up immensely. And the benefits become essentially irrelevant on animals with 8” vitals below 500 yards.

Telling a hunter to buy a $500-1000 match barrel instead of $500-1000 worth of practice ammunition is just pointless once he’s shooting 1” to 1.5” groups from a bench. At that point, his maximum range is whatever distance he can hit 10/10 inside that 8” circle from a given position and under field conditions. For some folks, the maximum range offhand is 50 yards or maximum range with any wind is 200 yards. Or whatever. And getting a match barrel or “better ammo” won’t increase the maximum range offhand or in the wind any appreciable amount.

I understand the temptation. It’s fun to shoot tiny little groups on paper. It builds confidence in ourselves and our equipment. But in non-static hunting situations, that ability and that confidence is hollow.

As the saying goes with any precision endeavor “the last 5-10% is going to require as much or more effort that the first 90-95%”…or something along those lines.

So to translate your basketball analogy to terms that address my shooting; if i have my1” (12 shot) groups, rather than be 3,4 or even 5% better from a bench, i should go out and build my field fundamentals up to the 90-95% level as a better investment. This makes sense. And someday when i need another hobby, i can lool into reloading and chasing that last 5% from a bench.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

As the saying goes with any precision endeavor “the last 5-10% is going to require as much or more effort that the first 90-95%”…or something along those lines.

So to translate your basketball analogy to terms that address my shooting; if i have my1” (12 shot) groups, rather than be 3,4 or even 5% better from a bench, i should go out and build my field fundamentals up to the 90-95% level as a better investment. This makes sense. And someday when i need another hobby, i can lool into reloading and chasing that last 5% from a bench.

Exactly. Once your hunting rifle is in the range you describe, you are best off taking your .22 and/or .223 out and practicing shooting from field positions.

 

[Pulleye16]

depends on the game. If I'm trying to smoke a prairie dog at 500 vs an elk.

 

[Xperimental]

I prefer Mrad because I can “quickly” calculate conversions since everything is base 10. Like using the metric system to convert between units. But, since we are Americans and used to Yards and inches, MOA seems to be more familiar to people here including myself. I think you’ll have no issue with either setup. I guess it depends how far your looking to shoot and what your shooting.