Micro Diameter Insert, Outsert, Ballistic Collar Systems .165 .166

[JDZ]

Building new hunting arrows and thinking of making the jump from .204 to .166 or .165. Looking to put 175 to 200 gr up front, including a 100-gr broadhead. I want to stay with standard thread broadheads. Trying to compare the following systems as well as any others you'd suggest.

Gold Tip Kinetic Pierce Platinum with inserts, ballistic collars, and FACT system.
Black Eagle X Impact or Deep Impact with the FOCOS system.
Victory VAP with SHOK or SHOK TL.

Do you have good or bad experience with any of these?

 

[dkime]

I have bent the VAP and GT systems while shooting casually, not even testing durability. I have not used a FOCOS system as of yet but its exactly the same as the original day six system. IMHO there's a reason that Day Six went away from that and moved toward the centric system. Good luck in your search!

 

[Dvidos]

I have bent the VAP and GT systems while shooting casually, not even testing durability. I have not used a FOCOS system as of yet but its exactly the same as the original day six system. IMHO there's a reason that Day Six went away from that and moved toward the centric system. Good luck in your search!

+1

 

[JDZ]

I have bent the VAP and GT systems while shooting casually, not even testing durability. I have not used a FOCOS system as of yet but its exactly the same as the original day six system. IMHO there's a reason that Day Six went away from that and moved toward the centric system. Good luck in your search!

You bent them how? By shooting targets? Animals? Rocks and stumps?

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I've been shooting VAP's for the last year with the outserts. I've bent one or two, but only because I screwed up and hit a rock. I took a moose with this system as well. Both arrows hit bone and actually broke the carbon arrows inside rather than bend the outsert. I'm happy with the system.

 

[Mosster47]

I've been using VAPs with the outserts since they started making them. I've never bent one. Our indoor range was glued and compressed carpet which is really hard and never had a problem. 3D targets were never an issue either, but make sure you lube your outserts before you shoot them into foam. I've had a few outserts that stayed in 3D targets.

I can't speak to post animal. I retire an arrow after it runs through game. Other than one that went straight into a stump they all looked usable. I'd recommend them.

 

[dkime]

You bent them how? By shooting targets? Animals? Rocks and stumps?

All of my GT systems were shot into a Rhinehart wall, and all of my VAP systems were shot into an 18-1. You can shoot them just fine as long as you’re ready to replace them often. I clamp all my shafts into a 5C spin index and test run out fairly frequently. I’d see .025” TIR on the systems compared to .003-.005 when they’re built


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[bignocks]

Day 6 arrows might also make your list of arrows to check out.

 

[JBahr]

I tested the VAPs and Gold Tips you listed. I ended up with the VAP's and Iron Will collars and Deep Six inserts. They are far better than the components standard to the arrows. Makes for an expensive setup, but they are far more durable. I've also tried Day Six, good arrows but physically heavier for equivalent spine.

 

[Zew]

Good Lord, stay away from the SHOK TL's. Instead of spending 50 bucks on them buy some Ethics insert/outserts and dont make the mistake I made. Hell, I'll send you my SHOK TL inserts for free. Just buy the Ethics and you'll be happy. Spin your arrows before you glue them in. Then put the outsert on and spin again. It's time consuming but perfect arrow flight requires effort.

 

[Zac]

 

[madkaw284]

Been shooting the VAP’s with the Ethics archery system for 2 years now and haven’t looked back.

This arrow was “just a bit outside” and went through a steel ratchet strap buckle. Arrow still spun true with zero damage except for a smashed point.

 

[silasbowhunter]

I honestly think the Day Six centric system is the best or close. Mine spin great, fly amazing, and are very durable.


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[RaggedHunter]

I will second what several others have said, the day six system is top notch all around, and especially with regards to durability. When it comes to micro shafts, day six arrows and their centric components are the best I've used.

I cant speak for VAP, but the gold tip components are junk, I would not even entertain using gold tips without swapping to better components. Even when I tested gold tip pierce platinums with ethics components, it was still not as durable of a setup as the day six.

In my opinion, if you're going to go with a micro shaft, go with the day six and don't look back. Otherwise just go to a .204 shaft and get an axis with a footer.

 

[mtnkid85]

Been shooting the VAP’s with the Ethics archery system for 2 years now and haven’t looked back.

This arrow was “just a bit outside” and went through a steel ratchet strap buckle. Arrow still spun true with zero damage except for a smashed point.

Is that the SS post and the Al sleeve?
I built a set of injexions this year with the 65gr all aluminum Ethics and I haven't been overly impressed with them. Ive bent several of them already. Last year I shot the SS post cut down to 50g and the Al sleeve for 75gr total and was pretty happy with the durability of those, they didn't seem to bend like the all aluminums have.

 

[JDZ]

My main concern is that I want a component system that will spin true, be straight, and fly true with broadheads. Durability is also a concern, but I don't think I'm incredibly hard on equipment. Claims of poor runout after shooting into a Rinehart are a little concerning, though.

I really like the idea of the Day Six stuff, but their arrows are just too heavy for me to get decent FOC and speed out of my short draw length.

I'd also really like to stay with standard thread broadheads, mostly to keep all the options open. And the bigger shank has to be a little more durable.

I need some help with terminology: What's the difference between a collar and a footer?

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[dkime]

My main concern is that I want a component system that will spin true, be straight, and fly true with broadheads. Durability is also a concern, but I don't think I'm incredibly hard on equipment. Claims of poor runout after shooting into a Rinehart are a little concerning, though.

I really like the idea of the Day Six stuff, but their arrows are just too heavy for me to get decent FOC and speed out of my short draw length.

I'd also really like to stay with standard thread broadheads, mostly to keep all the options open. And the bigger shank has to be a little more durable.

I need some help with terminology: What's the difference between a collar and a footer?

.
.

They’re essentially the same thing, collars act as a footer. A footer is just a way of protecting the outside of the shaft. If you’re chasing high FOC you’re going to run into durability issues in general, assuming you’re an average dude with average strength and average draw length shooting an average speed bow. Putting all that weight up front won’t help out penetration wise if your system doesn’t hold together. The easiest way to get to a High FOC is with a light GPI shaft, I’ve gone down that road and so have many others around here. I think you’ll notice a similar trend. Durable, good speed to cover your average shot distances, strong attachment system, a robust broadhead, and freezer full of animals that have no clue what FOC means


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[WesternHunter]

I have the Pierce regulars with 50 grain FACT weights in the back of standard inserts and out/ballistic collar. Overall I haven't been impressed with them. Tolerances are such that I can't get many to spin straight, and anytime shooting 3-d or otherwise when I have a questionable hit, shoot into the dirt, etc. the arrow almost always breaks off right at the insert. With my GT pro hunters I've shot many an arrow into the dirt and they've lived to shoot another day.
If you bought some aftermarket components for the GT you may have better luck.

 

[RaggedHunter]

They’re essentially the same thing, collars act as a footer. A footer is just a way of protecting the outside of the shaft. If you’re chasing high FOC you’re going to run into durability issues in general, assuming you’re an average dude with average strength and average draw length shooting an average speed bow. Putting all that weight up front won’t help out penetration wise if your system doesn’t hold together. The easiest way to get to a High FOC is with a light GPI shaft, I’ve gone down that road and so have many others around here. I think you’ll notice a similar trend. Durable, good speed to cover your average shot distances, strong attachment system, a robust broadhead, and freezer full of animals that have no clue what FOC means


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^^^ +1

Don't get wrapped up chasing the FOC craze, been there, durability is way more important than what you're FOC % is. Also the weight of a full day six set up doesn't hurt your trajectory as bad as you think it will, the aluminum system is plenty strong and keeps overall weight pretty moderate assuming you shoot 100 gr heads. A heavier arrow quiets the bow also.

What is your draw length and weight?

 

[madkaw284]

Is that the SS post and the Al sleeve?
I built a set of injexions this year with the 65gr all aluminum Ethics and I haven't been overly impressed with them. Ive bent several of them already. Last year I shot the SS post cut down to 50g and the Al sleeve for 75gr total and was pretty happy with the durability of those, they didn't seem to bend like the all aluminums have.

Yes they are. I cut the insert down to 30gr and with the SS collar at 70gr gave me 100 worth of insert. I never tried the aluminum collars just for that matter. I figured they would probably be on the weak side and bend but this setup has really been bulletproof!


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