Meniscus Surgery- Worth it?

[Farmingdale's Finest]

When I was 18 I was playing highschool softball and after playing for 8 years already, I had to have my knees looked at my senior year. I was told the meniscus in my knees was beginning to thin and they could see a small tear beginning to form in my right knee. At age 18 hearing i would have to have both knees worked on if i wanted to play college ball kinda scared me so i opted out in hopes of preserving what meniscus i had left. Well, I never thought I'd be doing as much physical activities after softball but I moved away from home and am now starting to get into western hunting a bit which as most of us know means lots of up hill/down hill hiking and uneven terrain with weight on our backs. Now 24 years old and starting to hurt a bit more than i used to i'm starting to think maybe its time to have my knees looked at and have at least my right knee worked on because descending off the mountain especially with weight is almost too much to bare anymore unless i go snail pace on the trail which is frustrating for me.

I'm just curious if anybody on here has had the surgery and saw the difference that makes the surgery worth it in the first place? Or if i should just take some good anti-inflammatory meds with me, knee brace/wrap, and a DBAP attitude + doing some PT at home during the off season to strengthen my hips, knees, and ankles. Was recovery as easy and quick as they make it sound? Did you try something different that worked instead of going the surgery route? Either way, I'm gonna hunt and keep on keepin on regardless. Probably gonna end up with some hellactious arthritis in my knees and end up needing a total knee replacement by my 40's but hell at this point just add it to the list! Thanks in advance for any info!

I am 54 today. When I was a freshman in college I blew out the medial meniscus the first time I played on astroturf. Back then astroturf was nothing more than indoor/outdoor carpet over concrete. I played the rest of the season being told I stretched a ligament. They put a brace and tape on me and sent me back out there. During spring practice I started to have an issue where that leg would give out and I occasionally fell because of it. I had surgery that summer and the next two summers within the one year anniversary.

Fast forward to about 30 and I started having some pain and went to the ortho and he told me yes I did tear it again but he couldn't guarantee another surgery would make me feel any better. He asked if I could live with the pain and gave me the advice that if the pain isn't unbearable, the knee locks or gives out then suck it up because there is no guarantee it will be any better.

Do as much PT to avoid surgery as possible because once the surgery is done there is no going back.

I at 38 took up Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and was very athletic winning the 2009 BJJ Pan Ams at 43 just 7 months before having a widow maker heart attack. Last fall I went on my first elk hunt in colorado and we hunted down and up a 1000 ft vertical in less than a 1/3rd of a mile with 40lb pack and had no issues other than having to rest when my heart rate got up to 196 BPM. It hadn't been that high since my heart attack. No issues with the knees. I trained with yoga, a basic kettle bell workout, backpack cardio of 2-4 miles with 40-75 lbs 3-4 days a week before work and an ungodly amount of step ups which strengthened the knee's.

Good luck with whatever you do!

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

When I was 18 I was playing highschool softball and after playing for 8 years already, I had to have my knees looked at my senior year. I was told the meniscus in my knees was beginning to thin and they could see a small tear beginning to form in my right knee. At age 18 hearing i would have to have both knees worked on if i wanted to play college ball kinda scared me so i opted out in hopes of preserving what meniscus i had left. Well, I never thought I'd be doing as much physical activities after softball but I moved away from home and am now starting to get into western hunting a bit which as most of us know means lots of up hill/down hill hiking and uneven terrain with weight on our backs. Now 24 years old and starting to hurt a bit more than i used to i'm starting to think maybe its time to have my knees looked at and have at least my right knee worked on because descending off the mountain especially with weight is almost too much to bare anymore unless i go snail pace on the trail which is frustrating for me.

I'm just curious if anybody on here has had the surgery and saw the difference that makes the surgery worth it in the first place? Or if i should just take some good anti-inflammatory meds with me, knee brace/wrap, and a DBAP attitude + doing some PT at home during the off season to strengthen my hips, knees, and ankles. Was recovery as easy and quick as they make it sound? Did you try something different that worked instead of going the surgery route? Either way, I'm gonna hunt and keep on keepin on regardless. Probably gonna end up with some hellactious arthritis in my knees and end up needing a total knee replacement by my 40's but hell at this point just add it to the list! Thanks in advance for any info!

I am 54 today. When I was a freshman in college I blew out the medial meniscus the first time I played on astroturf. Back then astroturf was nothing more than indoor/outdoor carpet over concrete. I played the rest of the season being told I stretched a ligament. They put a brace and tape on me and sent me back out there. During spring practice I started to have an issue where that leg would give out and I occasionally fell because of it. I had surgery that summer and the next two summers within the one year anniversary.

Fast forward to about 30 and I started having some pain and went to the ortho and he told me yes I did tear it again but he couldn't guarantee another surgery would make me feel any better. He asked if I could live with the pain and gave me the advice that if the pain isn't unbearable, the knee locks or gives out then suck it up because there is no guarantee it will be any better.

Do as much PT to avoid surgery as possible because once the surgery is done there is no going back.

I at 38 took up Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and was very athletic winning the 2009 BJJ Pan Ams at 43 just 7 months before having a widow maker heart attack. Last fall I went on my first elk hunt in colorado and we hunted down and up a 1000 ft vertical in less than a 1/3rd of a mile with 40lb pack and had no issues other than having to rest when my heart rate got up to 196 BPM. It hadn't been that high since my heart attack. No issues with the knees. I trained with yoga, a basic kettle bell workout, backpack cardio of 2-4 miles with 40-75 lbs 3-4 days a week before work and an ungodly amount of step ups which strengthened the knee's.

Good luck with whatever you do!

 

[CoffeeGoat]

I heard about this recently from another study and thought I should mention it:

Surgery for Torn Meniscus in the Knee is Often Unnecessary, Ineffective, Misdirected

Surgical meniscus repair was not superior to sham surgery in a randomized, controlled trial.Non-surgical care of meniscus-injury related pain, such as exercise, was equally or more effective than surgical interventions.Approximately 700,000 arthroscopic partial meniscectomies are performed...

www.mdalert.com

The short version is in many cases surgery is ineffective, unnecessary and even dangerous. I'm sure the details matter, but it's a good example of the "see a problem, fix a problem" even if it's unhelpful. Apparently cardiovascular stents also fall into this category.

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

When I was 18 I was playing highschool softball and after playing for 8 years already, I had to have my knees looked at my senior year. I was told the meniscus in my knees was beginning to thin and they could see a small tear beginning to form in my right knee. At age 18 hearing i would have to have both knees worked on if i wanted to play college ball kinda scared me so i opted out in hopes of preserving what meniscus i had left. Well, I never thought I'd be doing as much physical activities after softball but I moved away from home and am now starting to get into western hunting a bit which as most of us know means lots of up hill/down hill hiking and uneven terrain with weight on our backs. Now 24 years old and starting to hurt a bit more than i used to i'm starting to think maybe its time to have my knees looked at and have at least my right knee worked on because descending off the mountain especially with weight is almost too much to bare anymore unless i go snail pace on the trail which is frustrating for me.

I'm just curious if anybody on here has had the surgery and saw the difference that makes the surgery worth it in the first place? Or if i should just take some good anti-inflammatory meds with me, knee brace/wrap, and a DBAP attitude + doing some PT at home during the off season to strengthen my hips, knees, and ankles. Was recovery as easy and quick as they make it sound? Did you try something different that worked instead of going the surgery route? Either way, I'm gonna hunt and keep on keepin on regardless. Probably gonna end up with some hellactious arthritis in my knees and end up needing a total knee replacement by my 40's but hell at this point just add it to the list! Thanks in advance for any info!

I am 54 today. When I was a freshman in college I blew out the medial meniscus the first time I played on astroturf. Back then astroturf was nothing more than indoor/outdoor carpet over concrete. I played the rest of the season being told I stretched a ligament. They put a brace and tape on me and sent me back out there. During spring practice I started to have an issue where that leg would give out and I occasionally fell because of it. I had surgery that summer and the next two summers within the one year anniversary.

Fast forward to about 30 and I started having some pain and went to the ortho and he told me yes I did tear it again but he couldn't guarantee another surgery would make me feel any better. He asked if I could live with the pain and gave me the advice that if the pain isn't unbearable, the knee locks or gives out then suck it up because there is no guarantee it will be any better.

Do as much PT to avoid surgery as possible because once the surgery is done there is no going back.

I at 38 took up Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and was very athletic winning the 2009 BJJ Pan Ams at 43 just 7 months before having a widow maker heart attack. Last fall I went on my first elk hunt in colorado and we hunted down and up a 1000 ft vertical in less than a 1/3rd of a mile with 40lb pack and had no issues other than having to rest when my heart rate got up to 196 BPM. It hadn't been that high since my heart attack. No issues with the knees. I trained with yoga, a basic kettle bell workout, backpack cardio of 2-4 miles with 40-75 lbs 3-4 days a week before work and an ungodly amount of step ups which strengthened the knee's.

Good luck with whatever you do!

 

[bac078]

Like others say... depends on your age. Once you remove it or clip it to clean it up... its gone forever

 

[BigDog00]

I'll piggy back off this thread...

I jacked up both knees last August and am still fighting them. I've had x-rays and n ultra sound but unfortunately can't do an MRI. The dr originally didn't think there was any meniscus damage but I think there is. I have a lot of swelling behind my knee that hasn't gone down since the injury happened. I have almost no pain however. I have noticed some occasional minor pain while doing squats/lunges which leads me to believe there is a little damage. I've been living with it without any restrictions but would love to get the swelling down. A bakers cyst was ruled out with the ultra sound. Any ideas?

It seems like most people have favorable results from surgery, its the other side that scares me a bit. My knees have been bullet proof up to this point in my life and I'd like to keep it that way. I'm currently waiting for the Dr to make a decision on the course of action. There talk of doing a CT scan to see what that shows if anything.

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[LBuchser]

Get a CT w/ contrast. Also, good physical therapy is a HUGE deal with strengthening breaking up the facia and scar tissue so that you can get range of motion back and mitigate inflammation and stiffness. I cant stress "proper" PT enough after a surgery. I had a second knee surgery last October to remove a couple other tears. I went to PT at one facility and didnt feel i was improving much. I ended up getting recommended to another place and it was so much better - they did so many more dynamic exercises for strengthening, deep tissue therapy for breaking up the scar tissue and facia as well as stimulating blood flow to the area, stretching and electro therapy for the pain. I'm super impressed and glad I did the surgery, I'm way better off for it!

 

[WCB]

24 and starting to hurt more? Oh those were the days....played hockey, football, baseball, rode horses, and guided mountain hunts in my 20s...I don't have a gauge but wait till your body is 34 going on 60.

My right knee has all sorts of problems and I would say do the PT non surgery route as long as possible. By possible I mean where you can still live your life. Not exactly the same but I had an extreme IT band issue a couple years ago to the point where on one hunt it got so tight it sounded like a rubber band when bending my leg (yes you could audibly hear it). It took me 20 minutes to go 300 yards up a hill. Was in the process of doing PT and was thrown the option of surgery if it didn't go away. Luckily it eventually faded (still flares up once and a while but glad I worked through the PT as I'll deal with random flare ups. Again if this was every time I was on a hunt I would have chopped my leg off in no time.

As some others have said....you know what the deal is right now...once surgery happens you don't.

 

[BigDog00]

I failed to mention that I did about 2 months of PT to start and it did nothing. I started getting frustrated with them because we did the same thing over and over. I wouldn't have lasted that long had my insurance not been maxed out.

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[BFR]

Had radial tear in right knee small lateral in left per MRIs. I’ve never believed you can make something stronger by removing it. My Orthopedic Dr. said if I had surgery there would be 98% chance of arthritis in the knees. After a lot of research I opted for Stem Cell injections using my own stem cells thru Regenex. That was 3yrs ago, no pain, no tenderness and no arthritis per current MRIs. Wife was bone on bone and had some regrowth in her knees reducing pain substantially. Just another option to consider.

 

[BigDog00]

Had radial tear in right knee small lateral in left per MRIs. I’ve never believed you can make something stronger by removing it. My Orthopedic Dr. said if I had surgery there would be 98% chance of arthritis in the knees. After a lot of research I opted for Stem Cell injections using my own stem cells thru Regenex. That was 3yrs ago, no pain, no tenderness and no arthritis per current MRIs. Wife was bone on bone and had some regrowth in her knees reducing pain substantially. Just another option to consider.

Interesting, I didn't know that was an option. What's the process of donating your own stem cells look like?

 

[BFR]

Interesting, I didn't know that was an option. What's the process of donating your own stem cells look like?

In my case they drew blood and separated the platelets to inject around the knees. Also had it done for chronic neck pain worked great. In my wife the took a marrow sample from her hip bones to get her stem cells. She was more severe than mine. Most of the places that advertise use dead cells, Regenex uses your live cells from your body. They have their own in house lab to do the separation and can count the live cells.

 

[BigDog00]

In my case they drew blood and separated the platelets to inject around the knees. Also had it done for chronic neck pain worked great. In my wife the took a marrow sample from her hip bones to get her stem cells. She was more severe than mine. Most of the places that advertise use dead cells, Regenex uses your live cells from your body. They have their own in house lab to do the separation and can count the live cells.

That doesn't sound terrible. I did a bit more research last night and it looked like a bone marrow sample like you mentioned as well as some getting some fat cells through a liposuction type of procedure. I dont think I'm down with getting lipo. Lol

 

[BFR]

That doesn't sound terrible. I did a bit more research last night and it looked like a bone marrow sample like you mentioned as well as some getting some fat cells through a liposuction type of procedure. I dont think I'm down with getting lipo. Lol

They get more viable cells from the marrow than fat from what I was told. I’ll PM you.

 

[Woodchuck16]

This thread caught my attention....
I am 29 years old. I have had surgeries on both my knees. Left knee ACL reconstruction in 2010 (I severed my ACL in High School summer football mini camp. I was bullheaded and refused surgery. I got a PT to work with me for 6 weeks straight to strengthen my knee and regain my flexibility. I passed his conditioning and strength tests and he wrote me a letter giving me permission to play my senior season without the ACL. I wouldn't trade that for anything but I probably caused additional meniscus damage by playing on it compared to the initial knee injury). I had an additional meniscus surgery in 2019. Right knee ACL reconstruction in 2013 (Football, again). Meniscus was torn and the doc tried to save the meniscus and 'stitch' it together hoping that healing occurred. Post operation ~6 weeks later those 'stiches' in my meniscus gave out the second time I was allowed to jog on a treadmill. A couple days later I was put under for scoping. I have ~50% meniscus in both knees. My knees are 'different' but still function great. Knock on wood, i dont have chronic pain. I have noticed that certain footwear will cause discomfort. Consistent exercise I think is the reason for my knees mostly being a non issue yet... I know I am young and I want to buy as much time as possible before I am forced to have more surgeries or total replacement. @grossklw if you have stability/flexibility/strength exercises that you recommend, can you send my way? I tried sending you a PM but I don't contribute enough and don't have permission - something to work on I guess.

 

[grossklw]

@Woodchuck16 I'll send you a PM, you're likely higher level than a lot of the stuff I would give out. If the PM doesn't work shoot me an e-mail at [email protected] and I can try and get you started on some higher level stuff that I give out. Some of my go-to higher level activities, are monster walks (heavy, heavy band), Bulgarian squats, splits squts, Jump Squats, russian SLDL, slide-backs, Kettlebell (turkish get-ups, clean/snatch)..Just to name a few. Strengthen the shit out of those hips and you'd be surprised how much that helps lessen the load at your knees. On 90% of my knee patients we spend most of our time on hips. A good personal trainer will be every bit as valuable as your physio for higher end activities.

I probably would've given you the ok for playing your senior season if you were capable of coping too. I'm sure you tore that meniscus worse playing, but you're only a senior in football once. If a kid and a parent both understand long-term that we're making a poor decision who am I to say that senior year of football isn't worth a knee replacement later in life? Any younger than that though and it'd be a big hell no from me.

I'm surprised they had you running 6 weeks post-op after an ACL reconstruction, especially if he did a meniscus repair with that surgery that's wayyy too early. A lot of physicians don't even let you have weight on it with a meniscus repair for 6 weeks (if ACL only then weight bearing right away is fine). I don't let patients on a treadmill until at least week 10 or so after an ACL; there's no reason to rush it. You're going to be out for such a long time it's kind of a what's the point in risking it here? I'm a big fan of loading it up and lifting early though, like 3-4 weeks post-op light deadlift, mini-squats etc.

Sounds like you've had a lot of bad luck. With having both your ACL's done and multiple scope's you will likely have knee replacements some day, but that could be 30 years (nobody knows, only you do). By that time who knows where the technology will be. I wouldn't mess around with any "clean up" scope's if I were you at this point, your knees have been messed with enough. Avoid until the bitter end and get them replaced when the time comes.