May have just witnessed my first copper bullet failure…

[5MilesBack]

I shot a big cow one year from about 75 yards with my 7mag and a 175gr Partition. I followed her tracks for close to 400 yards and found her slumped over a blowdown. When I cut her open, there was no heart.....just chunks and soup. It happens.

 

[JFK]

Things happen with all bullets. I’ve seen well shot elk need follow up shots from partitions, eldx etc. OP if you want to shoot copper I’d pick a cartridge/bullet combination that’s 3000+fps muzzle velocity. Not a guarantee, but it puts things in your favor.

 

[eamyrick]

Above mentioned elk shot with 4x 178 eld-x.

 

[180ls1]

Little nervous reading this. I recently purchased a 6cm to use with the Barnes TTSX. Was hoping the speed would help with the copper bullet limitations and high shoulder shot put them down quick.

The speed absolutely will help. 3k+ MV has done really well for me on big game with copper - .277 and .264

I'd bet your 6mm would have done better than the OP's 7mm at that MV.

 

[hiker270]

Unless state mandated I would not use copper bullets. Opinions vary mine is bonded heavy for caliber bullets on Elk.

 

[Lawnboi]

Above mentioned elk shot with 4x 178 eld-x.


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Wow that’s what I’d call a bullet failure.

 

[coast range]

All great, well some great, comments. I guess when I clearly stated bullet failure I should have said “let down”

I didn’t take any more pics as this was a salvage mission to say the least. Successful one at that thankfully.

As far as the wound channel there was some of the “jellied” blood under the front shoulder of the “exit” side and a little on the entrance side. It missed ribs on entrance and exit.

Animal was absolutely perfect broadside. The exit you see is mirrored on the other side. If anything a touch low.

I have been active here long enough to have read just about every thread about bullet selection. The only rifle the I still personally load for with copper is my daughters 7 08. She has stacked quite a few elk with that. I bet that gun has about 15 big game kills with it and not a single issue. That’s why I was surprised to see this outcome, that is all.

 

[eamyrick]

Wow that’s what I’d call a bullet failure.

Not sure which angle you are coming from but my overall point was bullets aren’t magic. If I wouldn’t have caught the bull moving through a meadow and neck shot him we would have never found him. I’ve had similar results with copper.

Shot sequence was 430, 470, 404 and then 65. Makes me want to high shoulder or neck shoot more animals.

 

[Lawnboi]

Not sure which angle you are coming from but my overall point was bullets aren’t magic. If I wouldn’t have caught the bull moving through a meadow and neck shot him we would have never found him. I’ve had similar results with copper.

Shot sequence was 430, 470, 404 and then 65. Makes me want to high shoulder or neck shoot more animals.

Just wouldn’t have expected it from that bullet is all.

Goes to show, keep shooting while they are on their feet no matter what.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Goes to show, keep shooting while they are on their feet no matter what.

Kill them until they die from it.

 

[Ready2Rut]

OP, I would take a look at Hammer copper bullets. Depending on the exact model, they are designed to actually shoot the petals off, similar to a fragmenting lead bullet like an ELD-X, instead of just mushrooming. I haven't made the jump to copper but I have 2 buddies who shoot hammers in 6mm and 6.5mm and have had very promising results.

 

[ArmedInMD]

I think with the Barnes mode of action sticking within the traditional caliber class for game is best. So in .243 caliber deer and pronghorn. I wouldn’t use that bullet to step up to elk. Yes the 6 cals have been shown more than adequate for elk but that jump up is due to bullet mode of action more than caliber.

I'm thinking I got a little excited too quickly reading the post. The largest thing I will be taking is a MD whitetail. Which if I'm understanding correctly the 6cm should be up to the task.

 

[PLhunter]

I'm thinking I got a little excited too quickly reading the post. The largest thing I will be taking is a MD whitetail. Which if I'm understanding correctly the 6cm should be up to the task.

Absolutely.

 

[PLhunter]

I'm thinking I got a little excited too quickly reading the post. The largest thing I will be taking is a MD whitetail. Which if I'm understanding correctly the 6cm should be up to the task.

The bullet that the OP was using was particularly light for caliber. 7mm 120 grain bullet. So pretty dang low sectional density. That’s why they didn’t get an exit. With an exit, and two holes to drain air pressure and blood that elk would have went down sooner. With a Barnes type bullet you need enough speed to get full opening of the pedals but also enough weight to poke two holes.

I shot a big bodied old mule deer at 540 yards with a 168 grain Barnes .30 cal bullet. Quartering away and it exited through the shoulder. Animal expired within 20 yards. They can definitely work but for example the 25-06 is an amazing deer round but I don’t think I’d have had the same outcome had I been using the 90 grain 25-06 load. That said with a hammer, cutting edge, etc… type design I’d go back to having no problem with the 25-06 for that application.

 

[rclouse79]

This last season I switched from a Barnes ttsx to a Berger vld. I have only killed two animals with vld, but both were bang flops. The only bank flop I can remember out of many animals with the Barnes was a mule deer I shot in the chest and had the bullet go the length of the animal. The Barnes killed stuff, but many times the animal would run off, require a second shot, or stand there for what felt like too long after a good shot. Based on the small sample size I have seen with the vdl I have zero regrets about switching.

 

[KHntr]

And I’ve seen an elk go 65 yards with a field point through both lungs
I’ve seen people say they have tracked an animal for 500 yards and when actually measured it’s been 240 yards
Shit happens but rarely stories like these are 100% factual truths, not because the poster is trying to lie but because there are assumptions with no proof
I’m not calling the OP out as a liar, just saying that the odds of an elk running 750 yards with two lungs, with holes created by a truly mushroomed bullet entering and exiting both lungs fully is slim to about none unless the elk was shot on top of a hill and gravity helped make up that distance. But 750 yards through a swamp and the thickets of the west side is a long ways where gravity isn’t helping much.
You boys can keep coming up with scenarios and how anything can happen and its the bullets fault for not working and keep telling me I’m wrong, I’m ok with that. I’ll continue to just admit I made a bad shot when my double lunged with a mushroomed bullet animal runs 750 yards.
The internet is an entertaining place

If you shoot enough stuff with a Barnes, this won’t be so unbelievable.
I have a 6pt on my wall that covered better than 600 measured yards in very brushy alder and spruce forest flat ground over 6 hours from the first shot to the fourth. And the first shot was at less than 15 yards quartering to me, in through the inside of the shoulder and caught in his hip on the offside. Took a second 168 TSX at north of 3300 fps impact velocity when he was trying to get out of dodge. A third 5.5 hours later from my 300 Ultra through both shoulders when I got him up out of his bed at 30 yards. The final finisher to the base of his skull a half hour after that when he was trying to get to his feet.

The only “bad” shot was the one that broke his front leg because it just missed his body when he was wheeling around a rootwad like a barrel horse on turn one.
I’ve ALWAYS been interested in bullet damage and bullet paths and always trace everything out of curiosity. That bull had a lung completely traversed on an angle front to back, and damage to his liver. Small holes mind you, but holes none the less. He also had a hole punched through both lungs squarely from the 3rd shot.

Mono’s kill slower than cup and core bullets with the same placement. They create smaller wound channels. That isn’t subjective, it’s simply how they work due to construction.

Of course they kill stuff, but if you aren’t breaking major bones on entry and creating secondary shrapnel via bone shards to hit vital organs or forced faster bullet expansion before it hits organs then you can end up with stuff traveling farther.