Mathews bow for 2016

[xcutter]

Just noticed the two new bows for Mathews have been released for 2016. One is the Halon in 3 different brace heights 5, 6, and 7. The other is the HTX.

Anyone had a chance to see these in person?

 

[BackcountryMT]

I'm not impressed with the new lineup at all. That Halon 5 at 30" ATA, 353 FPS and 5" brace height should sure be a forgiving shooter

Granted 60% or more of the nations archery sales are probably centered on midwest guys looking for shorter bows for treestands. Shootability, speed, and a 30" ATA just don't mix.

 

[xcutter]

Agreed that the Halon 5 will be a hard bow to shoot to be accurate and repeatable.

 

[Will_m]

I thought it was a nice change, although the halon somewhat reminds me of the monster lineup. I definitely want to shoot the 5 whenever my local shop will get one, and I am not so quick as to to jump on the brace height train. I don't know that a shorter brace height really translates into less forgiveness, nor have I ever really noticed it. I don't think I'm alone on this either, as I believe the archery community is beginning to debunk this old wives' tale, at least to some extent.

I also don't understand the notion that a shorter ata length, in the context of a few inches, would translate into less shooting consistency.

 

[BackcountryMT]

I thought it was a nice change, although the halon somewhat reminds me of the monster lineup. I definitely want to shoot the 5 whenever my local shop will get one, and I am not so quick as to to jump on the brace height train. I don't know that a shorter brace height really translates into less forgiveness, nor have I ever really noticed it. I don't think I'm alone on this either, as I believe the archery community is beginning to debunk this old wives' tale, at least to some extent.

I also don't understand the notion that a shorter ata length, in the context of a few inches, would translate into less shooting consistency.

The shorter the BH the longer the arrow stays on the string. The longer the arrow stays on the string the more torque will be induced into the arrow. Its simple physics there.

I'm not sure how anyone could argue against shorter ATA bows being less consistent? Think about it as a triangle with your anchor point being the tip of the triangle and the ATA being the base. The longer (wider) the base is the more stable the entire platform is. Hence why there's never been a target bow built on anything anywhere close to the 30" mark.

 

[Will_m]

I understand the concept behind the ideas, in practicality, however, I'm not sure they play out that way.

For example, on the brace height issue, the arrow will be on the string for one to two inches longer at most. Given that, how long do you think that actually is? Assuming it is extremely brief, as it most likely is, how much can you move or tweak in that narrow frame of time? I would argue that it is very little. Furthermore, it is likely so little that at hunting ranges it is probably unnoticeable. I will agree that it certainly exists, however, I just don't know if I am willing to believe that an inch or two of brace height difference will translate into a noticeable change outside the target world.

As for the ata, I see what you are saying but I think the consistency will lie in sight alignment, including anchor point, hand grip, and release. If those things remain constant, the size of the triangle should be irrelevant. Now as far as a shorter ata bow being more difficult to hold steady, maybe, but I think that is where an argument for balance would begin.

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying don't believe things masquerading as common knowledge when you can easily test these things first hand in practice. It is not uncommon for theory and practice to diverge in their results. As an aside, I'll likely be passing the Halon over for Elite so I'm certainly not taking the position of fanboy here.

 

[OR Archer]

I'm not impressed with the new lineup at all. That Halon 5 at 30" ATA, 353 FPS and 5" brace height should sure be a forgiving shooter

Granted 60% or more of the nations archery sales are probably centered on midwest guys looking for shorter bows for treestands. Shootability, speed, and a 30" ATA just don't mix.

Hate Mathews much? Haha

 

[BackcountryMT]

Hate Mathews much? Haha

I like the solo's. Can't stand any of the dual cam bows. They just don't compare.

 

[jmez]

The brace height issue has nothing to do with time on the string. It has to do with string angle and resultant torque at full draw. It is magnified the longer the draw length. Longer the bow the more stable the platform.

I don't think either of these have been debunked. They are both laws of physics and those laws don't change. IMO, hunters don't shoot well enough to see the changes that these things make. Look down the line at Vegas, long ATA bows shooting low speeds with long brace heights. Quite simply, a longer, slower bow with a long brace height is more accurate. That platform is more forgiving to form errors which is what it all boils down to.

The new tourney bows released every year aren't getting shorter and faster. That is the litmus test for accuracy.

 

[Will_m]

The brace height issue has nothing to do with time on the string. It has to do with string angle and resultant torque at full draw. It is magnified the longer the draw length. Longer the bow the more stable the platform.

I don't think either of these have been debunked. They are both laws of physics and those laws don't change. IMO, hunters don't shoot well enough to see the changes that these things make. Look down the line at Vegas, long ATA bows shooting low speeds with long brace heights. Quite simply, a longer, slower bow with a long brace height is more accurate. That platform is more forgiving to form errors which is what it all boils down to.

The new tourney bows released every year aren't getting shorter and faster. That is the litmus test for accuracy.

Given the dinner plate size cams and relatively short limbs, would you agree that the string angle would be less severe? I agree on the stability aspect of the longer ata, and wholeheartedly agree with the notion that most hunters don't shoot well enough to notice.

Certainly an interesting topic, I'm always up for learning/discussion.

If I understand what you're saying though, the brace height affects the angle of the string at full draw, and thusly, results in torque translated to the arrow which affects its flight once it leaves the bow? That sounds like a nock travel issue? Not arguing, just making sure I understand this correctly.

I agree that target bows are undoubtedly the model for accuracy and consistency, but we're talking hunting here. Would you not agree that in the hunting world, at reasonable hunting distances, a "shorter" brace height and ata would be irrelevant, at least for a normal draw length? I just feel like this is one of the those things that does in fact exist, but has been blown greatly out of proportion for the bowhunting community, almost like concerning oneself with the coriolis effect for the average rifle hunter.

 

[d90rick]

I shot the Halon 6 today, glad I pre-ordered one. The string angle is more like a 32 ATA bow (28.5" DL). I have a No-cam and Monster wake btw. It does draw nice, but seem a bit stiffer than my monster (I shot them both side by side to compare btw). Also, in person, the cams don't look any bigger than the wake, chill or even some of the pse and bowtechs. Dead in the hand, quiet, balanced, pretty dang nice. When you compare it to the Monster wake it looks tiny and you don't really notice the weight difference. I don't know if I like the material the grip is made of though, it is a plastic/rubber material that is a bit slippery to me. I will probably put the focus grip on it and trim down the ridge with a razor like on my no cam. Overall, when it comes in and has side stab on it etc., it will be real sweet. Just my opinion of course.

 

[jmez]

I think that is correct with the brace height. I used to think it was a time on the string thing but it gets brought up about once a year over on AT and the engineers get involved with pretty technical explanations. Maybe we could get Darin Cooper to explain brace height, ATA, long riser/short limbs and oversize cams to us?

I think the theory is that the oversized cams and short limbs is to increase string angle. That is what Hoyt is advertising with their new line. I do know that Darin Cooper prefers the longer ATA bows.

What do you consider to be a reasonable hunting distance. I think for Eastern WT hunters shooting mechanical broadheads at 20 yards ATA, brace height etc are fairly irrelevant. A pretty large form error isn't a big deal in that situation. At 60 yards with a larger fixed blade head a very small form error can result in a bad miss. Shooting a bow that will magnify that form error only makes it worse.

 

[Will_m]

Yeah I probably overlooked the fact that even reasonable range is pretty relative. I go out west with some regularity, but nothing like the guys who live out there. Some of those guys would probably consider 80 yards very reasonable, and they would have the skill to match it. Knowing that, you're definitely right that any little error would be magnified, especially with a fixed blade head. It also probably doesn't help that I'm trying to understand physics without an education in physics.

I also agree that those guys on AT really get into the weeds on this topic, probably why I felt the need to shake up the bee hive on it over here. Seems like I remember seeing some guy on there drawing all kinds of diagrams to support his arguments and posting them, pretty interesting stuff.

d90, I know you said it had a nice draw cycle, but does it have a pretty abrupt rollover? Looking at those cams it just looks like it would peak pretty aggressively and immediately dump. Also on the grip, I know everybody hates the old wooden grips, but can you not get those anymore? I have one on my sbxt and I love that grip.

 

[d90rick]

will, it rolls over pretty dang smooth. what's odd to me is, the halon peaks and drops off smoother than my wake, but it felt stiffer. had I not seen that they were both set at 61# I would have thought the halon was set higher. as far as the grip, I know dave's torqueless grips would work if Mathews doesn't have one. the dealer said the new grip fits just like the focus grip, so I may add the focus grip. the surface of the new flat grip to me was slippery. I understand have a smooth grip to fight torque, but to me it was slippery and make just take some time to get used.

 

[d90rick]

the guys on AT to get all worked up!... it's like the news, speculating, making conclusions without even shooting a bow... you make the good point of where the heck are you hunting and the yardage shot. I have my no cam for 3d. I have my monster wake for out west because it holds so well in the wind and can sling a 525gr out to 80yds with good energy and accuracy, when shot correctly of course. I bought the halon for WT/turkey etc. here in the Midwest. Different tools for different situations, just like the tool box in my garage....

 

[Nick Muche]

I can't imagine using different bows for different scenarios/hunts. How can a person possibly be "one" with their bow (especially archery equipment) if they are using several. I don't even feel comfortable taking a bow hunting until I have shot it to the point everything about it is second nature. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Good luck.

 

[orionsbrother]

I can't imagine using different bows for different scenarios/hunts. How can a person possibly be "one" with their bow (especially archery equipment) if they are using several. I don't even feel comfortable taking a bow hunting until I have shot it to the point everything about it is second nature. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Good luck.

^^^^^^^^Yep.

 

[Will_m]

I might consider it......if'n I had the coin to afford three fully outfitted bows.

 

[tipsntails7]

The shorter the BH the longer the arrow stays on the string. The longer the arrow stays on the string the more torque will be induced into the arrow. Its simple physics there.

I'm not sure how anyone could argue against shorter ATA bows being less consistent? Think about it as a triangle with your anchor point being the tip of the triangle and the ATA being the base. The longer (wider) the base is the more stable the entire platform is. Hence why there's never been a target bow built on anything anywhere close to the 30" mark.

Check out the cams on that bad boy, they are monstrous. I bet the string angle is no worse then Hoyt's 33" bows. I wouldn't shoot it, but it says Mathews on the limb, so it will sell.

 

[OR Archer]

I had a chance to shoot our demo Halon 6 this morning. It looks much better in person than in the pics. The new camo looks good on the bow. Its a much lighter color. The bow draws very smooth. Good back wall. Very quiet and no vibration at the shot. Speed was good as well. My complaints are the weight. Its a beefy bow for a short A2A. Also I wasn't a fan of the grip. Its an improvement but I prefer the angle on my Hoyt better.

Overall it's a great shooting bow. It'll be a popular bow for them again.