Masculinity and Caliber Choice

[ElkArcher918]

As a newish hunter, I’ve been talking to many folks regarding calibers, rifles, etc. It seems there is a pretty substantial amount of hunters who make fun of people who use “wimpy” calibers and try to justify using a 338 Win Mag on southern white tails.

Shouldn’t a person use the strongest caliber they can shoot the best? A .243 in the right spot is miles better than a 300WM in the dirt ya know?

I’ve even been told the .270, .308, and even the .30-06 isn’t good enough and a magnum is needed . Doesn’t make sense.

Thoughts on why some people seem to think their masculinity coincides with their caliber choice?

I wouldn't over think it. It's just human nature. Shoot the caliber that gets the job done for you and don't give two shits what others say or do. Enjoy your hunts, life is too short.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I just did the math with a 160 grain accubond at 2600 fps muzzle velocity that's 1466fps and 763 lb of energy at 680 yards. A 300 win mag with a 215 at 2840fps muzzle velocity is 1993 fps and 1896lb at 680 yards. The 7mm-08 is unethical at that that range. I can do the math with other bullets if you would like.

I did it with a 162gr ELD-X at 2640 MV, just used Copper Creek's factory ammo specs. Why would the energy matter? The bullet either has enough velocity to open on impact or it doesn't, energy doesn't really factor in other than as a not-very-useful measure of the velocity.

 

[MCS]

So here’s the issue- no one that claims that a bullets splashed on a shoulder and failed to penetrate the depth of a squirrel has any pictures, any video- anything if “failure”. But, like you above, they seem to have that for the magnums that they say work.

There is about 4 inches of meat and 1/8” of pliable bone a bullet has to get through to penetrate the scapula of an elk- yet all these bullets “blow up” and can’t make it through, yet they somehow make it through the same meat and bone of deer without issue.

The shots had different placement on the deer vs the elk. The bullets that hit the shoulder did not travel through and take out the other shoulder. The one shot in the rear of the chest cavity traveled all the way through the chest. No wound shots.

 

[Formidilosus]

The bullets that hit the shoulder did not travel through and take out the other shoulder.

Hold on: did the bullets-

penetrated just under the front shoulder.

That means they stopped just under the “front shoulder”- as in 4” of penetration, or did they penetrate through the shoulder, the ribs, the lungs, the ribs- but not through the opposite shoulder?

 

[Jon Boy]

I just did the math with a 160 grain accubond at 2600 fps muzzle velocity that's 1466fps and 763 lb of energy at 680 yards. A 300 win mag with a 215 at 2840fps muzzle velocity is 1993 fps and 1896lb at 680 yards. The 7mm-08 is unethical at that that range. I can do the math with other bullets if you would like.

160 accubond would be a poor choice and poor comparison. If we’re cherry picking let’s try a 162 eldm at 2700. Mine 7/08 does 2750 but some would call me me way over pressure. And I’ve either killed or witnessed bulls killed with this at 590 and 690. Double tap DRT.


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[MCS]

I did it with a 162gr ELD-X at 2640 MV, just used Copper Creek's factory ammo specs. Why would the energy matter? The bullet either has enough velocity to open on impact or it doesn't, energy doesn't really factor in other than as a not-very-useful measure of the velocity.

Just because you did something doesn't mean it was smart. You need energy to get through bone and flesh 1124lb of energy is pretty low for a elk. I've shot a antelope at too far of range for the velocity and bullet I was using. I killed the antelope but that doesn't mean I did the right thing.

 

[Formidilosus]

Just because you did something doesn't mean it was smart. You need energy to get through bone and flesh 1124lb of energy is pretty low for a elk. I've shot a antelope at too far of range for the velocity and bullet I was using. I killed the antelope but that doesn't mean I did the right thing.

How many ft-lbs of energy at impact do you need to get through the mighty elk shoulder? Please be specific.

 

[MCS]

160 accubond would be a poor choice and poor comparison. If we’re cherry picking let’s try a 162 eldm at 2700. Mine 7/08 does 2750 but some would call me me way over pressure. And I’ve either killed or witnessed bulls killed with this at 590 and 690. Double tap DRT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here is the math with a 162 eldx at 2640fps

 

[Shō[t]gun]

What does a slug gun say about me? Lol

That you’re probably in the Midwest or a small lease. Been there, but holy smokes do they freaking work!

 

[JohnJohnson]

Just because you did something doesn't mean it was smart.

I meant I ran the numbers with that bullet/MV combo. I think I can be trusted to handle that very simple task even if I didn't have your expert consult.

You need energy to get through bone and flesh 1124lb of energy is pretty low for a elk. I've shot a antelope at too far of range for the velocity and bullet I was using. I killed the antelope but that doesn't mean I did the right thing.

Bullet manufacturers only list minimum impact velocities for bullet performance. Are they missing something that you've figured out? As form said, what is your minimum impact energy for elk for it to be ethical?

 

[MCS]

How many ft-lbs of energy at impact do you need to get through the mighty elk shoulder? Plea

Hold on: did the bullets-



That means they stopped just under the “front shoulder”- as in 4” of penetration, or did they penetrate through the shoulder, the ribs, the lungs, the ribs- but not through the opposite shoulder?

Both shots broadside hit the shoulder and fragmented stopping under the shoulder with only a few fragments going into the rib cage. I had no signs of the bullets traveling through into the other shoulder.

As for ft-lbs I want enough to put shit down. There are to many variables to know how many it takes to get through the mighty elk shoulder. My preference is 1500lb.

 

[JohnJohnson]

As for ft-lbs I want enough to put shit down. There are to many variables to know how many it takes to get through the mighty elk shoulder. My preference is 1500lb.

Alright you're Ron Spomer on a burner account.

 

[Chuckybmd]

I guess it depends on what you’re looking to hunt, and where your hunting.

Shooting deer sized game without dangerous game nearby doesn’t require a big caliber.

On the other hand It is nice to be able to know you’ll have enough kinetic energy at long distance to kill ethically.

I’d like to introduce you into an interesting hack called “buy as many guns as you want!” Use each each one for a specific purpose. It has made me strangely happy living this way.

 

[taskswap]

You’re a girl.

What time is dinner?

Ugliest girl you ever saw. Still want a date?

 

[Balderdash]

It cracks me up that the small rifle crowd thinks guys that like larger calibers only shoot and hunt with the biggest rifle they own, or that we’ve never hunted with a 243, or never seen animals taken with 243, 25-06, or 270. The gun safe of every hunter I’ve ever met in Wyoming is full of rifles of all sizes. If you grow up in a western state and enjoy hunting, every year you’re exposed to a number of friends and family that killed something each year with a huge assortment of cartridges and ranges - it’s no secret what gun was used, where the animal was hit, and how far it went. This is repeated a hundred thousand times a year throughout the west - there’s no brain surgery required to see a 270 kills better than a 243, or a 300 mag kills better than a 270. To claim only the small caliber crowd has seen the light and been blessed with good judgement is far fetched. Lol

My thoughts on the subject as well. A lot of folks incorrectly assuming that a lot of other folks haven't been killing and witnessing killing with a number of different cartridges and bullet designs over a good many years.

My annual deer camp used to have 15-20 people. Averaged 8-10 large whitetail bucks and a few does a year. Cartridges in camp through the years ranged from 223 up to 375 H&H. Further, have done crop damage work and have likely been on 25+ diy elk, MD, moose hunts and a few trips to other locals as well. As such, I find some of the derisive and mocking "fudds just don't know any better" rhetoric amusing. Certainly, people should use what they can handle best, and a well placed projectile of proper construction for the job will kill an animal; however, just because someone killed a few animals or read something on the internet, they shouldn't also make the mistake of "knowing" that others don't know well why they choose a certain cartridge over another.

Maybe larger calibers and magnum cases are a negative phallus in some instances? Such as it is, there's an aweful lot of small caliber virtue signaling going on these days.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

As a newish hunter, I’ve been talking to many folks regarding calibers, rifles, etc. It seems there is a pretty substantial amount of hunters who make fun of people who use “wimpy” calibers and try to justify using a 338 Win Mag on southern white tails.

Shouldn’t a person use the strongest caliber they can shoot the best? A .243 in the right spot is miles better than a 300WM in the dirt ya know?

I’ve even been told the .270, .308, and even the .30-06 isn’t good enough and a magnum is needed . Doesn’t make sense.

Thoughts on why some people seem to think their masculinity coincides with their caliber choice?

Jesus christ not this shit again...

 

[Pharmseller]

Ugliest girl you ever saw. Still want a date?

Hell yes, if elk steak is on the menu.

Looks fade, anyway, but cooking skills are forever.




P

 

[Pharmseller]

My 300 win with a muzzle brake recoils less then a 7mm-08. The last elk I shot with it was at 680 yards. That would be unethical FOR ME with a 7mm-08. The only time I had a problem was when I decided to use a 6.5

I’m not going to change your mind and you’re not going to change mine.

Just be careful not to paint with a broad brush.




P

 

[IDVortex]

My 300 win with a muzzle brake recoils less then a 7mm-08. The last elk I shot with it was at 680 yards. That would be unethical with a 7mm-08. The only time I had a problem was when I decided to use a 6.5

I think this is where hunters fail as a whole. Going with what they think should be ethical and holding everyone to that same stsndard.

End of thr day, use the cartridge that's legal for the game your about to shoot, then next importantly, the cartridge you shoot the most accurately with.

 

[Maverick1]

You’re a girl.

What time is dinner?




P

“You’re a girl” - - - Said the Quiche Man to the girl…….