Mark's Glock was empty

[wind gypsy]

Keep in mind that coroners in WY are elected positions. Anyone can run and win, you need no training. I wouidn't put much stock in a coroners report.

Interesting, I had no idea.

 

[Beendare]

So just because there's sadness and loneliness at the funeral.......you don't want or expect people to learn from what happened? Every event (good or bad) is a teaching and/or learning opportunity for all regardless of everyone's emotions. No one is disrespecting Uptain.

Well said 5 Miles^

Its common in Business, the Military and every sport at all levels to analyze an event such as this and take the appropriate steps so it doesn't happen in the future.


By all accounts the deceased was a fantastic man.

Is any one of us packing a semi auto going to carry it on a dead chamber in bear country.....not after this.

Will guides reading this be better prepared....and better prepare their clients....you bet.

 

[Mi_fiveo]

There are so many good points to take away from this incident. I don’t think discussing it is disrespectful. Hopefully some of these incident details will help people who venture into bear country to hunt. As a Law Enforcement Officer, Firearms Instructor,and SWAT Operator, I can’t for the life of me fathom why the pistol chamber was empty.


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[Ray]

For you guys that carry do you always keep one in the chamber?

What about your rifle, do you have one in the chamber as well?

My Redhawk always has 6 rounds. The hammer transfer bar system on Ruger revolvers works very well. I trust it. I have tried to get it to not work and that takes some serious messing about, none of which is going to happen under any use I can come up with out in the field.

My rifle depends on the model and action type. Most the time no, as a bolt action is really simple and fast to run. I learned to run a bolt action without taking the rifle off my shoulder. It has freaked out some bear class instructors.

My 870, which is actually intended for bear defense, is kept in a "tactical ready" situation I learned during a bear defense class. With an empty and cleared weapon, pull the trigger, then load the magazine. Safety off. All you have to do is stroke the weapon and shoot. I never hand my 870 off to another person when in the field.

What ever defensive system a person decides to use, make sure you can deploy it in 1.5 seconds or less. Learned that in bear class, too. Taking your defensive system off your body, and placing it several feet away breaks this rule. Keeping bear spray in your pack breaks this rule.

 

[JWP58]

Keep in mind that coroners in WY are elected positions. Anyone can run and win, you need no training. I wouidn't put much stock in a coroners report.

True, but once elected they are required to complete the WLEA coroner course. Which isn't much, but it is some training. Furthermore some outsource autopsies to larger agencies.


Also for what its worth, defensive handguns should always be carried loaded (ie one in the chamber)....always. If you don't, you're wrong.

 

[Beendare]

What ever defensive system a person decides to use, make sure you can deploy it in 1.5 seconds or less. Learned that in bear class, too. Taking your defensive system off your body, and placing it several feet away breaks this rule. Keeping bear spray in your pack breaks this rule.

Good point^

Then to have a firearm the client was not instructed on.....assumptions are bad, "Who doesn't know how to fire a Glock?" This guy apparently.

Personally, We have a shotgun or 2 at the truck....when going back in for the second load of meat- or going back such as these guys did...easy to grab a shotgun with slugs.....[and probably instruct this inexperienced client how to pump the thing!]


As to your comment on your revolver being full, not all revolvers are safe on a full cylinder. Revolver and Semi autos are 2 completely different animals [of course]

Even with a hammer strap on my revolver holster, I've had the hammer get grabbed by brush and limbs [in fact, its a magnet!] when hog hunting with the dogs here in Ca. A quarter pull of that hammer then release while in your holster can make for a bad day when not loaded on an empty chamber.

 

[cbat]

Glock 20 10 mm is the issue firearm of the Polish Army to defend its soldiers against Polar Bears.

 

[wind gypsy]

Glock 20 10 mm is the issue firearm of the Polish Army to defend its soldiers against Polar Bears.

(Polack googles polar bears in Poland)

 

[Gunnersdad49]

My 870, which is actually intended for bear defense, is kept in a "tactical ready" situation I learned during a bear defense class. With an empty and cleared weapon, pull the trigger, then load the magazine. Safety off. All you have to do is stroke the weapon and shoot. I never hand my 870 off to another person when in the field.

Was your bear defense class taught by Alaska DNR? I found this quote, and worry a bit that an instructor may not have been clear about when this "tactical ready" position was the best choice.

"“In this class, we cover ways to carry in the field when working with others,” says Mike Harrington, firearm and bear-defense instructor for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. “An example would be two fisheries biologists walking up a stream, single file, both carrying pump-action shotguns. Before any training they would commonly carry both with rounds in the chamber and safeties on. I taught them a safer way, which is having the second person carry with their action loose, safety off. If a bear charged all this person would have to do is cycle a round into the chamber and engage the bear.”

source: American Hunter | Bear Defense From the Professionals

 

[Ray]

Was your bear defense class taught by Alaska DNR? I found this quote, and worry a bit that an instructor may not have been clear about when this "tactical ready" position was the best choice.

"“In this class, we cover ways to carry in the field when working with others,” says Mike Harrington, firearm and bear-defense instructor for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. “An example would be two fisheries biologists walking up a stream, single file, both carrying pump-action shotguns. Before any training they would commonly carry both with rounds in the chamber and safeties on. I taught them a safer way, which is having the second person carry with their action loose, safety off. If a bear charged all this person would have to do is cycle a round into the chamber and engage the bear.”

source: American Hunter | Bear Defense From the Professionals

Not taught by Mike, but taught by the people that taught him. Mike can only instruct State employees. That's not me. Feds used to be taught by Steve Nelson, even after he retired from USGS and USFWS. I took one class from him. Awesome day on the range.

 

[ndbwhunter]

Wouldn't have to "fight off " the bear. He could have given the guide the precious seconds needed to deploy his spray in an effective manner. 100% guaranteed that running away only helped himself. There's no debate involved. There's a reason they recommend not being alone in bear country, better survival odds in pairs or a group.

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It's easy to speculate what could have been done, but without being involved in that particular situation it's difficult to say sticking around would have actually helped the guide. Sounds like he didn't have any weapons on him, so what could he have done to distract the bear and not put himself in more danger?

I would feel horrible leaving someone behind, but without being in their shoes I can't say what I would have done.

 

[Ray]

As to your comment on your revolver being full, not all revolvers are safe on a full cylinder. Revolver and Semi autos are 2 completely different animals [of course]

Even with a hammer strap on my revolver holster, I've had the hammer get grabbed by brush and limbs [in fact, its a magnet!] when hog hunting with the dogs here in Ca. A quarter pull of that hammer then release while in your holster can make for a bad day when not loaded on an empty chamber.

My comment was specific to Ruger revolvers with the transfer bar system, and it not applicable to any other brand of revolver.

The only in holster discharge of a Ruger that I am aware of was when a fast draw holster with an open trigger area was used. Went off when the guy fell through willows. Being a single action pistol it required two limbs to snag both the hammer and trigger as he fell. The brush twisted the holster away from his body, wounding only his pride.

What you are discussing points to how important it is for a user to know their weapon. Read the owners manual. Train at the range. Think about "what ifs" when carrying and using the weapon. Complacency kills.