Margin of Error when Calculating Stove Fuel

[feanor]

If you get the Petrel let us know how you like it. I’m interested in one from a previous thread here. Seems like a good setup.

 

[BBob]

So I tested the Petrel (with a JetBoil cozy attached) with two stoves. 2c water, 2.6K ft elevation. Tested to fair boil not roiling. In the field I don't even go that far, I stop when it looks ready to boil. I ran each stove three times. This was also a spur of the moment quick and dirty test so your mileage may vary

1) Windmaster/Triflex support.

Avg boil time 2'45" with avg fuel used 5.3gm. Time and fuel used were very consistent. Pretty good performance. Burner is shrouded by the bottom of the pot and sits very close to the base of the pot. This combo should do very well in the wind. Ran the stove moderately to keep from killing the fins and from melting the neoprene cozy. This is typical for these hybrids and pretty subjective as I hold my fingers down around the bottom near the cozy just to guess what's too hot.

A note on this combo: With the pot on the stove it will not light with the self igniter. I have to lift and angle the pot away from the burner to get it to light. It just poofs (mini explosion) and goes out. I assume it's because the stove sits very close to the bottom of the pot and there's not enough air to mix and light.

2) BRS with shortened pot supports to fit my Inferno pot. Still sits at normal height so the burner is exposed below the pot. Might not be great in wind.

Avg boil time 3'13" with avg fuel used 4.7gm. Time and fuel used were very consistent. Same subjective guess as to how hot to run it.

The subjective finger test to how hot to run these stoves may contribute to the longer or shorter burn times and the amount of fuel used. It would be interesting at some point to test the Windmaster further away from the burner to see if more air would make it more efficient. Let's see what adapters FlatCatGear comes up with down the road for this pot.

Edit: Dug out an older test. Sterno Inferno with a BRS stove on pretty conservative low ish heat trying to eek out efficiency is 2C, 3.5-4 min boil, 3.5g fuel. On the above two tests I was pushing for quick boil times.

 

[Koda_]

This is a mule deer hunt and the tripod is for my binos and spotting scope. I'll be shooting a recurve, it's tough to shoot one of those off a pack

My base weight (for the items you listed) is already lower than that. I'm just fine tuning and not expecting to be able to reduce my total pack weight by more than a few pounds total.

If your base weight is less than 15lbs then yes, its worth fine tuning the rest of your loadout to shave off even more weight. Your on your way...

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

So I tested the Petrel (with a JetBoil cozy attached) with two stoves. 2c water, 2.6K ft elevation. Tested to fair boil not roiling. In the field I don't even go that far, I stop when it looks ready to boil. I ran each stove three times. This was also a spur of the moment quick and dirty test so your mileage may vary

1) Windmaster/Triflex support.

Avg boil time 2'45" with avg fuel used 5.3gm. Time and fuel used were very consistent. Pretty good performance. Burner is shrouded by the bottom of the pot and sits very close to the base of the pot. This combo should do very well in the wind. Ran the stove moderately to keep from killing the fins and from melting the neoprene cozy. This is typical for these hybrids and pretty subjective as I hold my fingers down around the bottom near the cozy just to guess what's too hot.

A note on this combo: With the pot on the stove it will not light with the self igniter. I have to lift and angle the pot away from the burner to get it to light. It just poofs (mini explosion) and goes out. I assume it's because the stove sits very close to the bottom of the pot and there's not enough air to mix and light.

2) BRS with shortened pot supports to fit my Inferno pot. Still sits at normal height so the burner is exposed below the pot. Might not be great in wind.

Avg boil time 3'13" with avg fuel used 4.7gm. Time and fuel used were very consistent. Same subjective guess as to how hot to run it.

The subjective finger test to how hot to run these stoves may contribute to the longer or shorter burn times and the amount of fuel used. It would be interesting at some point to test the Windmaster further away from the burner to see if more air would make it more efficient. Let's see what adapters FlatCatGear comes up with down the road for this pot.

Edit: Dug out an older test. Sterno Inferno with a BRS stove on pretty conservative low ish heat trying to eek out efficiency is 2C, 3.5-4 min boil, 3.5g fuel. On the above two tests I was pushing for quick boil times.

Good info. Appreciate you taking the time to do the tests and post the results!

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

I received the Petrel pot and did a little testing this weekend and this is what I found. All boils were done at medium low flame to conserve the most fuel. Tests were done with 2 cups of water, 70 deg air temp and with tap water.

- Petrel Pot w/ Soto Windmaster - 2:47 min boil time, used 5 grams of fuel

- Petrel Pot w/ Jetboil Neoprene Sleeve, Soto Windmaster - 3:07 min boil time, used 6 grams of fuel (this one surprised me the most, I expected it to be more efficient with the sleeve)

- MSR Titan Kettle w/ Soto Windmaster - 3:38 boil time, used 7 grams of fuel

To test lost performance with the Petrel in lower temps I put a fuel canister and 2 cups of water in a 33 degree refrigerator for 3 hours. This dropped boil time to 3:40 and used 6.5 grams of fuel (30% more).

Based on my tests and factoring in a 30% efficiency loss, the lightest stove/pot combo for me is going to be based on number of days as follows:

1-5 Days = MSR Titan, Soto WM, (1) 110 g canister

6-8 Days = Petrel, Soto WM, (1) 110 g canister

9-12 Days = MSR Titan, Soto WM, (1) 227g canister

13-15 Days = Petrel, Soto WM (2) 110g canisters


BBob mentioned above that his Soto wouldn't light with the self igniter when seated in the notches of the Petrel pot. I didn't have this issue and mine lit everytime without fail.

 

[*zap*]

When you weighed the canisters after prior trips how much was left?
It is good to keep records......

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

Wanted to close the loop on this. I decided to only bring the small 110 g fuel canister on my hunt and save the weight. It worked out well and was more than enough fuel. My final set up was:

Fire Maple Petrel Pot. Lid replaced with titanium Toaks lid. - 5.45oz
Soto Windmaster Triflex Stove - 2.35 oz
Snow Peak Hot Lips - 0.10 oz
MSR 110g Fuel Canister - 7.40 oz
Total = 15.30 oz

I was camped at 12,200 ft for 8 days. Temps were in the low 30's most mornings, 50's most evenings. I boiled water for 7 mornings and 8 evenings. So 15 total boils. All morning boils were 2 cups, evening boils were between 1-1.5 cups. Fuel canister weighed 210 grams full and 142 grams after the hunt, so I used 68 of the 110 grams. Based on this I feel pretty confident I could go up to 10 days with this set up.

Hope that helps someone shave some unnecessary weight.

 

[BBob]

Toaks lid.

Which size Toaks lid did you use? How’s it fit?

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

Which size Toaks lid did you use? How’s it fit?

It's their 95mm lid. Not the one on their website listed as "new version". I actually bought both this one and the new version and this one fits perfect. The folding handle wouldn't lock in the shut position with the new version and it also weighed slightly more than this one. This one weighs about half of the original Fire Maple lid and it also eliminates the lid binding to the pot when water is boiling. Not a great pic, but hopefully you can see the fit.

 

[Beendare]

FWIW, I got 5 solid days out of a small canister while backpacked in on my last early archery elk hunt- that included hot water for my shower bag. That higher efficiency pot makes a difference.

Worth noting- I had the first butane canister failure since I've been using these things- in many decades. One can just leaked like crazy when I screwed the brand new canister on for the first time- a total fail.

I think I will test these canisters prior to use in the future.

 

[TaperPin]

FWIW, I got 5 solid days out of a small canister while backpacked in on my last early archery elk hunt- that included hot water for my shower bag. That higher efficiency pot makes a difference.

Worth noting- I had the first butane canister failure since I've been using these things- in many decades. One can just leaked like crazy when I screwed the brand new canister on for the first time- a total fail.

I think I will test these canisters prior to use in the future.

I wonder what the % of leaking canisters is. Makes sense to test each one before a trip.

 

[Beendare]

I wonder what the % of leaking canisters is. Makes sense to test each one before a trip.

I wonder too.

FWIW, I have been using these canisters for 4 decades and never had one leak like that....I mean it was spewing gas like crazy and froze my hand.

I thought there must be something on the connection making it do that- nope perfectly clean, I had just removed the plastic cap and there was nothing on the stove itself.

So for me, it's one in maybe 60 canisters that this has happened.

It happened at a pretty good time on my last day. I should write them a nasty note though, I didn't get my Coffee that morning.....grin

 

[TaperPin]

I wonder too.

FWIW, I have been using these canisters for 4 decades and never had one leak like that....I mean it was spewing gas like crazy and froze my hand.

I thought there must be something on the connection making it do that- nope perfectly clean, I had just removed the plastic cap and there was nothing on the stove itself.

So for me, it's one in maybe 60 canisters that this has happened.

It happened at a pretty good time on my last day. I should write them a nasty note though, I didn't get my Coffee that morning.....grin

Wow - spitting out raw liquid is not good.

After my leak I replaced large canisters with multiple small ones so there would always be a backup.

 

[BBob]

I’ve had maybe two Lindal valve failures over the years. One a couple of weeks ago on a propane HVAC canister. It wouldn’t seat correctly on the fitting and leaked. Got the job done but something was out of spec on that valve. I can recall another probably 30 years ago that did the same. We had an extra pre stashed canister so we’re were okay. There’s been reports of contaminates from inside the canister getting into the valve causing failure. I wonder how many millions of valves Lindal has made around the world over a lot of years? Failures suck but I’d bet the odds are pretty low.

 

[Beendare]

I’ve had maybe two Lindal valve failures over the years. One a couple of weeks ago on a propane HVAC canister. It wouldn’t seat correctly on the fitting and leaked. Got the job done but something was out of spec on that valve. I can recall another probably 30 years ago that did the same. We had an extra pre stashed canister so we’re were okay. There’s been reports of contaminates from inside the canister getting into the valve causing failure. I wonder how many millions of valves Lindal has made around the world over a lot of years? Failures suck but I’d bet the odds are pretty low.

Yeah, but when I am trying to cut it close on these backpack hunts....I'm going to test these cans before hand from now on to keep from it wrecking my trip/hunt.

Same with buying stuff at the big box stores. My wife bought a bathroom vanity at Home Cheapo and one of the drawers was missing the center part of the drawer slide. We checked the top drawer ...but not the others. All installed- home depot said bring it back to swap- oh, yeah, thats easy- not.

I'm checking everything from now on and in that case....I'm opening the box either in the store or the parking lot.

It might be taking it too far having my liitle backpack stove in my pocket and screwing it on the canister in REI.....grin.

 

[BBob]

I'm going to test these cans before hand

I’ve been testing every can since that first one long ago.

 

[Beendare]

I’ve been testing every can since that first one long ago.

Smart man….

 

[Grassymike]

Just read this whole thread. I have a new way of cooking after this year. I dehydrate my meals at home. To rehydrate I started cold soaking in a Rubbermaid leakproof jar with a srew on lid in my pack about 1.5 to 2 hours before supper worked best. I dump my meal into my MSR titan kettle and just heat on low till it is warm stirring as it warms. I eat right out of the pot. This saves fuel because it takes less to warm food than boil water. My meals were incredible tasted just like home, fully rehydrated. The Rubbermaid came in a two pack at Walmart for like 5 bucks and only weighs 2.1 ounces. No 10-15 minute wait to eat anymore.

 

[Idaboy]

It's their 95mm lid. Not the one on their website listed as "new version". I actually bought both this one and the new version and this one fits perfect. The folding handle wouldn't lock in the shut position with the new version and it also weighed slightly more than this one. This one weighs about half of the original Fire Maple lid and it also eliminates the lid binding to the pot when water is boiling. Not a great pic, but hopefully you can see the fit.

Great info here, this is the set up I have put together, might see if the Olicamp pot fits a little better. I have a small wrap Ti diy screen I am tinkering with
- did you use/try any screen with this at all?
-this guy has an I depth dive on testing out these hx in practice

He goes WAY down some rabbit holes. More for the UL backpacking crowd

But I love these DIY gear hacks that are better than what's on the market

 

[BBob]

-this guy has an I depth dive on testing out these hx in practice

Wind, those tests don't account for wind at all. Some days a naked Toaks or similar will eat a lot of fuel trying to heat where a good HX system sitting next to it will do fine. BTDT

did you use/try any screen with this at all?

I've used a small piece of Ti foil cut and slid up under the neoprene cover on the windward side of the pot. It works.