Marathon Training w/ Mountain Training

[Loper]

Anybody training for a marathon or ultra-marathon while also working out to get fit for their mountain hunt? What is your daily or weekly routine? What is your current mileage for your long runs? How long are your maintenance runs? What are you doing for strength training? When is your race?

 

[P Carter]

I'm not doing this now, but have in the past. (Now I focuse more on the mountain training but still try to run consistently.)

I was surprised at the degree to which mountain ultra fitness was not ideal for hunting fitness. Back in 2016, I trained and ran decently well at a 60k with 10K+ of vertical gain but was still pretty bushed for hunting, mostly due to the off-trail nature of hunting, lack of mobility, and lack of "accessory strength" such as grip strength and carrying heavy loads. Basically, I had gotten quite good and chugging up- and downhill at moderate-to-fast speeds, in a straight line, on a trail. But I got pretty fatigued and sore during and after the off-trail hiking, skinning, and carrying heavy loads. At that time, I peaked at around 60 mountain miles a week with some bodyweight strength training and some mobility work. I think I had 6ish long runs of 20 miles or more. I did one workout run a week, starting with mile repeats and then doing hilly tempo runs, long run on Friday, easy runs in between. I did three ultra races, a trail marathon, handful of ultra-length "adventure runs" on basically that same routine.

Now I feel much better in the hunting context. Hard to get an objective measure of mountain fitness, but I did a guided hunt last year, stayed up with the 19-year-old sheep guide, no soreness, felt great even skinning things out and carrying heavy packs. Have been following an Uphill Athlete guided training plan involving 8-week blocks of aerobic base, strength, and muscular endurance. Trail mileage of 30-40 miles a week, mostly running, two strength training sessions a week with more emphasis on higher weight and lower reps, dedicated blocks of loaded pack carries on steep terrain. I don't really do long runs any more, mostly due to time constraints, or could be laziness. I get my 30-40 miles a week with 7ish mile runs, mostly on trails.

I'm probably going to take a crack at some longer ultras next year, but will maintain the strength training and muscular endurance components. I think they add a lot and I certainly feel better with them in the mix.

For you, I'd suggest supplementing your running mileage with 1) consistent strength training...can be very simple such as choosing three main lifts to focus on and doing them 2x/week; and 2) perhaps one 6- or 8-week block of heavy pack carries on steep terrain. If your base mileage is high enough, it should provide a good basis to support some hunting-specific fitness as well.

 

[Nwihunter]

I’m currently training for the Chicago marathon which is October 8th and the very next day I’m jumping in my truck and heading to New Mexico for a first rifle elk hunt. I struggle to find time to strength train while getting all of my runs in. I’m starting a home routine consisting of push-ups, pull-ups and body weight and band, leg exercises. That’s about all I can fit in. I’m up to 12 miles for this weekends long run and my recovery runs are from 3 to 5 miles at a slower pace. I’m going to try and get some hikes in with a weighted pack as well. This year will only be my 6th western hunt and my 3rd marathon. Living at only 700 ft of elevation I think the all marathon training has really helped me out a lot as far as dealing with the elevations I hunt at. I will be camped out and hunting at over 10k feet this year. I still struggle to get enough air when I am climbing but seem to be able to recover pretty quick when I stop. Might not be the answer for everyone but has seemed to work pretty well for me.

 

[P Carter]

^If you do a 3 mile recovery run, there should be plenty of time to do a quick weight session. That’s what, less than 1/2 hour? IMO—try it, do a 3 mile warmup run, then 3 x 5 of squats, weighted lunges, and weighted lunges, twice a week. Use kettlebells if you have to, it’ll take like 20 minutes. Push-up and pull-ups the other days. Give it a shot for 3 weeks, start light so you’re not sore. Not a huge deal but my view is it will help, and you can find 20 minutes in the day…

 

[mtwarden]

I ran ultras for quite a few years. I was running roughly 30-40 miles a week (sometimes closer to 50 if I had a race coming up), one of those being a longer run on the weekend.

I also pretty religiously lifted twice a week.

The ultras were pretty much done by September (I ran one in the Bozeman area- the Rut Run in September). From that point it gave me a little over a month to get some weighted rucking in before the opener of rifle season (I'm not an archery hunter).

Never had much trouble come hunting season.

Now I've substituted hiking for running, my mileage is still in the 30-40 mile/week range- just takes a little longer to get those 30-40 miles

 

[insanelupus]

I don't do ultras or marathons, but if you can fit in 15-20 minutes strength training daily to your routine, this might be worth consideration.

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[Rusty Shackelford]

I did a sprint triathlon last August, definitely not as serious as an ultra but for 3 months I stopped lifting and was just running/biking/swimming. I lost a ton of strength and hiking endurance in those three months, especially in my stability muscles and hips. I felt it pretty quickly anytime I put on a pack and started hiking. My lungs felt great but I wish I had mixed in more strength training during those few months.

I’ve been doing more HIIT style training for the last 6 months with a huge emphasis on leg training. Tons of squats. But I have to say I’ve never felt better. Lungs feel great from a the conditioning, and strength and muscle endurance is right up there as well. I went on a longer run last week after not running much since the tri and I was surprised at how good I felt. I did some reading on pro-triathlete training regimens and learned that adding strength training to the normal triathlon programming is supposedly very beneficial.

 

[Blacktocomm]

I try to be "marathon ready" at all times. I get in 30ish running miles a week. At least half of those miles trail running.

Long runs in the 10-15 miles range, but often paired with a hike (with a toddler I carry in a pack) the same day in the summer or skiing in the winter. Other daily runs between 4-8 miles with 1 day being 5-8 miles of 3/4 mile intervals. Generally I take 1 or 2 days off to completely rest or maybe just mountain bike.

Weights I try to do 100 pushups/situps/curls a day and alternate with a few dozen pull-ups and weighted step ups every other day. Sometimes I go over or under just depends on how the day and work shake out.

I'm a new hunter but this regimen seems to translate well to being in the mountains. On SUPER steep hills I still get pretty beat up on the downhill and feel it a few days into next weeks workouts. I could always be in better shape or eat less junk food, but I am mostly content with where I am now.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I did years ago. I am heavier now and run less. Even then I lifted a lot And needed a lot of recovery. Also I wanted to run a marathon but needed to maintain a pretty significant cross training program that included timed ruck marches and land nav.

I cut my rucking to 1x a week and had to tune down my run mileage. my week looked like

- Monday - ruck march 4-8 miles
- tuesday - 5 mile run, or 2 and speed work like fast quarters
- thursdat - 7 mile run
- saturday - long run, started at 12 miles and added two miles a week up to pre-race peak of 20
- off days were bigger lifting days and active recovery.

 

[Poser]

I’ve seen this go very poorly and not sure I’ve seen it go well. I had a friend who trained for and completed an Ultra mountain race and had a difficult time getting it together for hunting season. Most bodies will sacrifice/shed some amount to a surprising amount of muscle needed (glutes/hips/posterior chain) for heavy rucking.

*More importantly, what you need for rucking is muscular endurance which is a completely different fitness vertical than running produces.* Marathon distance training will make you efficient at long distance running and little to nothing else.

My suggestion would be to only train for running the absolute minimum amount to complete a marathon -use a very conservative couch to marathon program where you don’t actually run that distance until the race and disregard completely the idea of fielding a competitive time. Something like 1 short, 1 medium and 1 long run a week and then actually emphasize maintaining your strength and in developing your muscular endurance with rucking up and downhill.

You will have to prioritize one or the other. Remember, afterall, even triathletes, who run marathons within the context of their sport, have to train for the bike and swimming equally: running doesn’t make you a better cyclists or swimmer and it won’t make you better at hauling a 60 lbs pack up a mountain for 2,000 feet in 1.5 miles. It may even make you worse.

 

[Loper]

I have a marathon planned for late October. Right now I’m up to 15 mile long runs. It will be 16 this week. I’ve been doing the MTN Tough backcountry 2.0 plan for the last 4 weeks and did the ramp up program before that. I’ve been doing great balancing my running with the strength training up until a few weeks ago. I have been consistently either running or working out every day for the last 5 or 6 months. It seems like ever since I hit the 12 or 13 mile mark on my long runs, it’s taken me longer to recover and my following strength training days after a long run suffer.

At this point I feel like my marathon training is getting in the way of my mountain training, and my mountain training is getting in the way of my marathon training, and they don’t complement each other all that well.

This isn’t my first marathon, but it is the first one since I’ve been doing western hunts in the mountains. Last time a ran a marathon was probably 13 years ago. At that time, I was hyper focused and the training paid off.

 

[Poser]

I have a marathon planned for late October. Right now I’m up to 15 mile long runs. It will be 16 this week. I’ve been doing the MTN Tough backcountry 2.0 plan for the last 4 weeks and did the ramp up program before that. I’ve been doing great balancing my running with the strength training up until a few weeks ago. I have been consistently either running or working out every day for the last 5 or 6 months. It seems like ever since I hit the 12 or 13 mile mark on my long runs, it’s taken me longer to recover and my following strength training days after a long run suffer.

At this point I feel like my marathon training is getting in the way of my mountain training, and my mountain training is getting in the way of my marathon training, and they don’t complement each other all that well.

This isn’t my first marathon, but it is the first one since I’ve been doing western hunts in the mountains. Last time a ran a marathon was probably 13 years ago. At that time, I was hyper focused and the training paid off.

With this schedule, You need, at a minimum, 1 full day of complete rest each week.

To put this in context, the US men’s cycling team has 2 full rest days a week and sleep a mandatory 10 hours of night in blackout rooms with no access to electronics.

At some point, without proper recovery, you’re are beating yourself into a hole. Sounds like that is what’s happening. Schedule a few days off and come back with a lighter schedule. You have 3.5 months to add another 10 miles to your running distance. That means you only need to add a 1 mile of distance every 10 days or so.

 

[westonhoma]

Anybody training for a marathon or ultra-marathon while also working out to get fit for their mountain hunt? What is your daily or weekly routine? What is your current mileage for your long runs? How long are your maintenance runs? What are you doing for strength training? When is your race?

Hey there! Started running marathons last year. Ran one road marathon in May and did my first ultra trail race a few weeks ago. One more road marathon in a couple weeks. I purposely got all these in before August so i can focus more on backpack training. At that point, i will mix in hiking hills with heavy pack to at least a couple times a week, maintain my current easy runs a couple days a week (probably will be 5-6milers). Then probably still throw in the once a week long run of 10 miles plus but probably wont much more than that as my focus is more strength training the legs. Also making sure to really start focusing on heavy weights/lower reps in the gym on leg day.

Honestly, I have found with DAILY stretching of at least 15 minutes, proper nutrition, and ensuring you take in your daily amounts of vitamins and nutrients (all the electrolytes, fish oil, and multivitamin), I have been able to mainin my body quite well without beating myself up. - Weston Homa

 

[Loper]

With this schedule, You need, at a minimum, 1 full day of complete rest each week.

To put this in context, the US men’s cycling team has 2 full rest days a week and sleep a mandatory 10 hours of night in blackout rooms with no access to electronics.

At some point, without proper recovery, you’re are beating yourself into a hole. Sounds like that is what’s happening. Schedule a few days off and come back with a lighter schedule. You have 3.5 months to add another 10 miles to your running distance. That means you only need to add a 1 mile of distance every 10 days or so.

Yeah I think you are right. I need to build in more rest days. There have been days recently where I’ve gotten to the gym and I’ve been tired or haven’t had the motivation to lift. Two weeks ago, the day after my long run was one of those days and what spurred this post. I ended up just stretching for about an hour and 15 minutes at the gym and it felt great. I should probably purposefully build in more days like that.

 

[timekiller13]

Yeah I think you are right. I need to build in more rest days. There have been days recently where I’ve gotten to the gym and I’ve been tired or haven’t had the motivation to lift. Two weeks ago, the day after my long run was one of those days and what spurred this post. I ended up just stretching for about an hour and 15 minutes at the gym and it felt great. I should probably purposefully build in more days like that.

You got to rest.

I just took two weeks off from running due to feeling completely exhausted and starting to hurt (not sore, real sharp pains). And my times were showing I was tired. Was struggling to keep 9:00 pace on short (less than 10 mile) runs, where as normally I get 8:30-8:45 pretty easy.

During that two weeks I focused on light cross training (pool and bicycle) and have now added in a strength training routine 3 days per week. Strength training includes traditional upper/lower body weight lifting with some weighted pack/rucking built in. Also reducing my running to 3x per week.

I can tell the rest really helped.

I tend to get real focused on an activity and then overdue it. I did that training for my first marathon and halfway through training for it I was running 7 days a week blasting out 60 miles a week and then I crashed hard.

I’ve now learned the importance of balance and variety. For one, it helps with your sanity. Two, you have to train all parts of your body equally.

 

[westonhoma]

You got to rest.

I just took two weeks off from running due to feeling completely exhausted and starting to hurt (not sore, real sharp pains). And my times were showing I was tired. Was struggling to keep 9:00 pace on short (less than 10 mile) runs, where as normally I get 8:30-8:45 pretty easy.

During that two weeks I focused on light cross training (pool and bicycle) and have now added in a strength training routine 3 days per week. Strength training includes traditional upper/lower body weight lifting with some weighted pack/rucking built in. Also reducing my running to 3x per week.

I can tell the rest really helped.

I tend to get real focused on an activity and then overdue it. I did that training for my first marathon and halfway through training for it I was running 7 days a week blasting out 60 miles a week and then I crashed hard.

I’ve now learned the importance of balance and variety. For one, it helps with your sanity. Two, you have to train all parts of your body equally.

I really found the significance of rest to be true when I did a taper for my last race. A 36 mile ultra with 7,000 ft of gain. I did like 70 miles in a week that ended 2 weeks out. I kept things light and my body felt so good. Final days leading up to the race (especially with some extra carbs and salt intake) I was sooo ready to go go go and I performed way better than my expected time. I have one more marathon this summer and I’m gonna sprinkle in some more rest during my training and be sure to taper the same way as well. Still struggling to get more sleep but that’s more of a personal issue lol

 

[timekiller13]

I really found the significance of rest to be true when I did a taper for my last race. A 36 mile ultra with 7,000 ft of gain. I did like 70 miles in a week that ended 2 weeks out. I kept things light and my body felt so good. Final days leading up to the race (especially with some extra carbs and salt intake) I was sooo ready to go go go and I performed way better than my expected time. I have one more marathon this summer and I’m gonna sprinkle in some more rest during my training and be sure to taper the same way as well. Still struggling to get more sleep but that’s more of a personal issue lol

Yea sleep is tough one for me in the summer months. I flip flop back and forth from day shift to night shift. During the school year it’s easy for me to sleep while the kids are at school. During the summer, the kids are home all day so it’s harder to rest. For instance I got off work at 3am last night and had to be up 8am to get the kids to their practice at 1000. I’ll catch a nap in the park while they do practice, then come back home, get a workout in and then head back to work.

At 40 yrs old, rest and recovery is just as important as working out!! When I was 25 I could operate on 2 hours of sleep for days at a time!! Those days are done!!

 

[westonhoma]

Yea sleep is tough one for me in the summer months. I flip flop back and forth from day shift to night shift. During the school year it’s easy for me to sleep while the kids are at school. During the summer, the kids are home all day so it’s harder to rest. For instance I got off work at 3am last night and had to be up 8am to get the kids to their practice at 1000. I’ll catch a nap in the park while they do practice, then come back home, get a workout in and then head back to work.

At 40 yrs old, rest and recovery is just as important as working out!! When I was 25 I could operate on 2 hours of sleep for days at a time!! Those days are done!!

That is rough man, just gotta do what you can. And hahah I'm 26 and that sounds about right for me at the moment! Maybe I will get lucky and get 4 tonight lol

 

[WoodBow]

For those struggling to fit strength training in with lots of run time, don't over complicate it. Do a 5x5 session of squat, deadlift or bench/ over head press 3 days a week. We are talking a total of maybe an hour a week if you take big breaks between sets. A how bar and rack is ideal because an actual set takes like 30 seconds or less, then you can go back to juggling the kids or whatever until recovered for the next set.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Loper]

You got to rest.

I just took two weeks off from running due to feeling completely exhausted and starting to hurt (not sore, real sharp pains). And my times were showing I was tired. Was struggling to keep 9:00 pace on short (less than 10 mile) runs, where as normally I get 8:30-8:45 pretty easy.

During that two weeks I focused on light cross training (pool and bicycle) and have now added in a strength training routine 3 days per week. Strength training includes traditional upper/lower body weight lifting with some weighted pack/rucking built in. Also reducing my running to 3x per week.

I can tell the rest really helped.

I tend to get real focused on an activity and then overdue it. I did that training for my first marathon and halfway through training for it I was running 7 days a week blasting out 60 miles a week and then I crashed hard.

I’ve now learned the importance of balance and variety. For one, it helps with your sanity. Two, you have to train all parts of your body equally.

Good to hear. Sounds like the rest really helped you.

I really found the significance of rest to be true when I did a taper for my last race. A 36 mile ultra with 7,000 ft of gain. I did like 70 miles in a week that ended 2 weeks out. I kept things light and my body felt so good. Final days leading up to the race (especially with some extra carbs and salt intake) I was sooo ready to go go go and I performed way better than my expected time. I have one more marathon this summer and I’m gonna sprinkle in some more rest during my training and be sure to taper the same way as well. Still struggling to get more sleep but that’s more of a personal issue lol

I’m definitely planning to taper down before my race. It’s been a while since I’ve run a marathon, but I remember how much tapering helped. Glad it helped your time.

Yea sleep is tough one for me in the summer months. I flip flop back and forth from day shift to night shift. During the school year it’s easy for me to sleep while the kids are at school. During the summer, the kids are home all day so it’s harder to rest. For instance I got off work at 3am last night and had to be up 8am to get the kids to their practice at 1000. I’ll catch a nap in the park while they do practice, then come back home, get a workout in and then head back to work.

At 40 yrs old, rest and recovery is just as important as working out!! When I was 25 I could operate on 2 hours of sleep for days at a time!! Those days are done!!

That is rough for sure. I’d be a wreck if I didn’t get good sleep.