M16 Extractor in Rem 700 action

[LaHunter]

What exactly did they do to your bolt, other than installing the M16 extractor? I'm not understanding how the extractor would cause case head separation.

 

[gbflyer]

You just sent the bolt? I was always under the impression that the counterbore diameter has to be increased for a m16 or Sako extractor. Maybe I have bad information.

 

[jonboatjockey]

What exactly did they do to your bolt, other than installing the M16 extractor? I'm not understanding how the extractor would cause case head separation.

Just the extractor as far as I know. Or that’s all they were supposed to do.

 

[jonboatjockey]

You just sent the bolt? I was always under the impression that the counterbore diameter has to be increased for a m16 or Sako extractor. Maybe I have bad information.

According to the rep, All they needed was the bolt and headspace wasn’t going to be an issue

 

[Wapiti1]

You just sent the bolt? I was always under the impression that the counterbore diameter has to be increased for a m16 or Sako extractor. Maybe I have bad information.

Unless there is damage, you don't need to mill the bolt face in the procedure. You mill out the groove for the original extractor, and install a sleeve that is already milled to the correct dimension. This changes the inside diameter, but not the depth of the bolt face. Then make the side cuts for the new extractor. No headspace change.

Did you have them move the ejector as well, or just a new extractor? After conversion, it will send brass up into a scope turret. Moving the ejector helps, but still doesn't cure that little issue.

Jeremy

 

[gbflyer]

Unless there is damage, you don't need to mill the bolt face in the procedure. You mill out the groove for the original extractor, and install a sleeve that is already milled to the correct dimension. This changes the inside diameter, but not the depth of the bolt face. Then make the side cuts for the new extractor. No headspace change.

Did you have them move the ejector as well, or just a new extractor? After conversion, it will send brass up into a scope turret. Moving the ejector helps, but still doesn't cure that little issue.

Jeremy

Yes I get all that. I’m taking about the counterbore diameter...function of the barrel not bolt. Typically .705 in a Rem 700. I’ve read anywhere from .735 and Badger Ordinance says .785 for a -16 extractor which seems excessive.

 

[jonboatjockey]

Unless there is damage, you don't need to mill the bolt face in the procedure. You mill out the groove for the original extractor, and install a sleeve that is already milled to the correct dimension. This changes the inside diameter, but not the depth of the bolt face. Then make the side cuts for the new extractor. No headspace change.

Did you have them move the ejector as well, or just a new extractor? After conversion, it will send brass up into a scope turret. Moving the ejector helps, but still doesn't cure that little issue.

Jeremy

No I didn’t have the ejector moved. It doesn’t throw brass like I thought it would either.

 

[LaHunter]

Only things I can think of:
1) your load is simply too hot
2) your brass is done (how many loadings?) Hot loads lead to fewer loadings
3) assuming they did nothing to your bolt face or the lugs, I don't see how headspace would be different now vs prior to getting the M16 extractor.

 

[gbflyer]

Only things I can think of:
1) your load is simply too hot
2) your brass is done (how many loadings?) Hot loads lead to fewer loadings
3) assuming they did nothing to your bolt face or the lugs, I don't see how headspace would be different now vs prior to getting the M16 extractor.

Seems like it would be difficult to install the filler ring and not at least touch the bolt face to clean it up. But I’ve never done one so it’s all assumptions on my part. If I were a pro I would have a hard time doing the bolt mod for someone without the barreled action in hand simply for the situation the OP has now.

Here’s a link that illustrates what is involved to do the work:

https://www.badgerordnance.com/media/bo_media/306-90_91_92_Extractor.pdf

 

[jonboatjockey]

Only things I can think of:
1) your load is simply too hot
2) your brass is done (how many loadings?) Hot loads lead to fewer loadings
3) assuming they did nothing to your bolt face or the lugs, I don't see how headspace would be different now vs prior to getting the M16 extractor.

These are the same loads that i have been shooting in this rifle for the past 4 years. Nothing else has changed with the rifle other than having an m16 extractor put in. The loads I shot yesterday were made about a year ago when did a batch of 50 or so for the next years hunting season and shot these same loads throughout the hunting season this past year. no issues, no pressure signs.

Case body measurements were 1.813 on the brass fired with the new extractor, thats a .004 increase over my usual 1.179 and then I bump the shoulder back .002, when reloading. So I have the measurements of before and after. Only thing that could have changed would be the bold face.

 

[jonboatjockey]

Seems like it would be difficult to install the filler ring and not at least touch the bolt face to clean it up. But I’ve never done one so it’s all assumptions on my part. If I were a pro I would have a hard time doing the bolt mod for someone without the barreled action in hand simply for the situation the OP has now.

Here’s a link that illustrates what is involved to do the work:

https://www.badgerordnance.com/media/bo_media/306-90_91_92_Extractor.pdf

I guess they do it all the time without a action present. And yes, i don't see how they can clean up the filler ring without touching the face, and we are talking thousandths here... it wouldn't take much to have gone to far.

 

[Wapiti1]

Seems like it would be difficult to install the filler ring and not at least touch the bolt face to clean it up.

It depends on the tool and setup used to cut the old extractor groove out. I use a tool I made that has a relief so it doesn't contact the face inside of the sleeve cut, then I plunge straight in for the cut. The sleeve that I insert is premade to final internal dimension so no further internal cuts are needed. Only one more face cut is needed to trim the sleeve to final height flush with the bolt nose. Then it is off to the mill for the side cuts and pin hole.

The only time I touch the bolt face is when I have to repair damage or line the firing pin hole. In that case, then you need the whole rifle to check headspace.

Jeremy

 

[Terrapin]

Maybe your barrel just builds pressure more than the norm. I have a 6.5x284 that starts showing pressure just a bit above the minimum loads in the data. I’m not sure if it’s the barrel or the chamber, and I don’t really care since it shoots good. If your gun exhibits the same symptoms with factory ammo, I would put on a new barrel. You could also have a rough chamber that is grabbing the brass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gbflyer]

These are the same loads that i have been shooting in this rifle for the past 4 years. Nothing else has changed with the rifle other than having an m16 extractor put in. The loads I shot yesterday were made about a year ago when did a batch of 50 or so for the next years hunting season and shot these same loads throughout the hunting season this past year. no issues, no pressure signs.

Case body measurements were 1.813 on the brass fired with the new extractor, thats a .004 increase over my usual 1.179 and then I bump the shoulder back .002, when reloading. So I have the measurements of before and after. Only thing that could have changed would be the bold face.

I’ve had 2-3 overpressure events with 700’s over the years. Not once has the case stuck in the chamber. I had one pretty extreme situation where the case head was stuck in the bolt. Beat the bolt open with a 2x4. The bolt handle stayed on and the case extracted from the chamber just fine. Knocked the case out. Didn’t even break the Remington extractor.

I have a PTG reamer that is undersized and gave me a lot of extraction problems. I have to get very heavy handed and “polish” it out. It’s done 3 chambers, and my chambers usually get bigger not smaller so I know it’s not me. . You say you have a custom barrel, you might have a very minimal chamber also. Wouldn’t explain the headspace increase, but .004 isn’t much and might be hard to accurately measure.

I wonder if the rebated rim on the .284 cartridge is playing a part? I dunno man, I’d say it might be time to box it all up and send it to a good smith.

 

[jonboatjockey]

I'll give them a call on Monday and see if they have any suggestions.

 

[ajwcotton]

How many loadings do you have on the brass? Any possibility of a thin web or needing a trim? Even a carbon ring could cause excessive pressure.

 

[ajwcotton]

As to opening the counter bore, I cut the counterbore on all barrels I chamber to fit a mini M-16 extractor even if the customer wants a factory extractor exactly for situations like this so sending in the entire gun isn't necessary.

 

[jonboatjockey]

How many loadings do you have on the brass? Any possibility of a thin web or needing a trim? Even a carbon ring could cause excessive pressure.

3 loadings on the Lapua Brass. If it was a counterbore issue wouldn't i have issues closing the bolt?

 

[rayporter]

your post:
I'm having extractor issues with a trued remington 700 action. I'm using Lapua brass and everything is clean. Loads are not extreme, but are a little warm. 140 Berger hybrids over 53g of 4831SC and 156 Bergers over 52g (i think, I don't have my notes in front of me.) The empty brass is no being pulled out of the chamber, but comes out very

you have been having trouble with this brass /rifle before this. i think new brass would be a smart acquisition.

 

[ajwcotton]

I don't believe it is a counterbore issue just clarifying for some of the guys that may think it is an issue with my reasoning, if it was you would at least feel a touch more resistance when closing the bolt or possibly a click as the extractor hits the counterbore.
If you haven't, check the brass with a paperclip with a small L bent in the end, If your brass is getting thin you should be able to feel a little dip inside the case just above the web. If you do feel this maybe cut one in half length wise and do a deeper inspection for a thin web.
Other than that I can't speak to how 419 does their extractors, but perhaps some solder flowed onto the bolt face and they took a facing cut to clean it up? But generally unless something goes wrong there isn't a reason to touch the bolt face when installing the ring.

All that being said, I've seen guns with more than +.004 headspace that didn't have case head issues.
Like some one else said above it may be time to send the entire rifle in and have a smith check it out in it's entireity.