LOW will do it. Who’s in?

[nobody]

I'd be in, here's my proposed recipe:

4-16x42/50, I could get on board with either
MRAD Based System
Tall, Knurled, Exposed Elevation Turrets (Ala 3-9 Variety)
Zero Stop
40 Mils Elevation travel
Capped Windage
SWFA HD Glass
30mm Tube
FFP THLR Style Reticle
Side Focus Parallax

I don't even care if it's still only got 5 Mils per rev, I'd be ok with that if we got all the rest of everything.

 

[Rifles And More]

How many do you think you'll get?

Yeah, the forums are full of the most discerning consumers, but that is only a fraction of the scope sales that happen. Starting a new company you would look at industry sales numbers and build what sells - not what you want. That's the tuff part - selling people shit that don't work to keep the doors open. The customer is always right!

I'll start:
I think 4-12x50 is the ideal scope.
10 Mils per revolution
HD/ED glass
Zero stop
Capped Windage
30MM
Christmas tree reticle
FFP
Illumination

Odds are, people here will use one feature to preclude them from participating.

 

[Superdoo]

 

[gbflyer]

How many do you think you'll get?

Yeah, the forums are full of the most discerning consumers, but that is only a fraction of the scope sales that happen. Starting a new company you would look at industry sales numbers and build what sells - not what you want. That's the tuff part - selling people shit that don't work to keep the doors open. The customer is always right!

I'll start:
I think 4-12x50 is the ideal scope.
10 Mils per revolution
HD/ED glass
Zero stop
Capped Windage
30MM
Christmas tree reticle
FFP
Illumination

Odds are, people here will use one feature to preclude them from participating.

You’re right. I think better to approach this as a break even sort of deal at best, at least to start with. If we look at it from
pure profit we will never get what we want as a product. I don’t think there’s much in any shooting related items to start with. We are too cheap of a crowd.

How many do we have to get? 100…200? No idea. Also better keep back a percentage for warranty. Having to wait a year for a replacement is no bueno. Stuff happens, even to anvils.

I won’t waste their time until there’s a reasonable list of features.

Are there regulatory issues? Assume not as long as not exporting but that could be a bad assumption. Anyone know?

Also, the final cost of the thing. Better to get them in a category that people don’t need a second mortgage on but not so cheap as to make people assume it’s junk. So where is that at?

Maybe these things, and more, are why no one has done it yet?

 

[SouthPaw]

I'd be in, here's my proposed recipe:

4-16x42/50, I could get on board with either
MRAD Based System
Tall, Knurled, Exposed Elevation Turrets (Ala 3-9 Variety)
Zero Stop
40 Mils Elevation travel
Capped Windage
SWFA HD Glass
30mm Tube
FFP THLR Style Reticle
Side Focus Parallax

I don't even care if it's still only got 5 Mils per rev, I'd be ok with that if we got all the rest of everything.

Literally just build the 3-12 LRHS with a better reticle. Done.

 

[Dos Perros]

How many do you think you'll get?

Yeah, the forums are full of the most discerning consumers, but that is only a fraction of the scope sales that happen. Starting a new company you would look at industry sales numbers and build what sells - not what you want. That's the tuff part - selling people shit that don't work to keep the doors open. The customer is always right!

I get this point of view, and in many ways you're right. But, you're discounting the potential of disrupters--industry innovators that are able to change the status quo with something new. I personally would never try to be another version of what everybody else is already selling. Better to be different and if that means you're niche then so be it.

 

[Rifles And More]

I get this point of view, and in many ways you're right. But, you're discounting the potential of disrupters--industry innovators that are able to change the status quo with something new. I personally would never try to be another version of what everybody else is already selling. Better to be different and if that means you're niche then so be it.

How was Vortex different?

I agree - innovation drives the free market. Our view of the market is limited though by what we see on the forums (think bubble). Do we really think there is a huge hole in the market for 'the perfect scope' and an established company hasn't identified it?

Perhaps there could be some success in a small piece of the market. I really doubt it could be sustainable without selling the bread and butter products - 3-9x40 CDS. The catch 22 of selling a reliable product that never needs replaced is a another thought.

I am not trying to piss on the idea of a group buy or a business for someone. I am trying to be a realist. This has to be thought out.

Would a Rokslide branded scope be awesome? Hell yeah it would!

 

[Dos Perros]

How was Vortex different?

Weren't they first ones offering a "quality" product with a no matter what lifetime warranty?

 

[JCMCUBIC]

Exactly. Capped windage (shorter), locking elevation turret (shorter), updated reticle. Those seem to be the major gripes. Not that it isn’t functional as is. Maybe go for broke use a steel tube. Few more oz. I hunt in the dark timber a lot, better be out of it by 1pm this time of year. I have yet to find the need for illuminating reticle but maybe I’m in the minority.

If we can get a reasonable list of features, I’ll make the call to them.

I'd really like a zero stop on the elevation....you may consider that included when you stated locking elevation turret?

I like the milquad reticle. I'd prefer it to have the same post on the lower as the upper and sides but others might not. I still like it as is.

A steel tube would push me away from it. One of the things I really like about the 3-9 is the weight.

For me, zero stopped elevation and capped windage would be the biggies for the 3-9.

 

[roosiebull]

The scope would be the cheap part.

Paying for all the flatbill marketing would break you...

Wouldn’t be bad, give one to gritty and hush, and start stocking up on empty money bags before the chaos… it would be the online version of Walmart on Black Friday.

It would be pretty sweet to have a scope designed (small line of scopes) granted there wasn’t a lot of unrealistic expectations and loading it with features and demand ultralite scopes.

I have my selfish features, but would probably not add much feedback trusting the choices of some before mine, I have been a set and forget guy until very recently, and understand others way more experienced than I would make better decisions… I wouldn’t want to clutter up design or muddy the water, because my understanding of a dialing hunting scope is limited

 

[Dos Perros]

What do optics specs look like for clarity, edge to edge clarity, chromatic aberration, etc? Are those things easy to objectively define?

 

[wapitibob]

You tell them which components to use then you pay them x dollars to test. The more you pay, the more they test. The NXS and PST were made on the same line, both came home in boxes, the difference being the pst was pulled off the shelf and shipped to customers with no idea if it was good or bad, the nxs was taken apart then bonded back together and tested in ID. Most of the scopes you guys complain about are built by low or equivalent.

 

[BjornF16]

Literally just build the 3-12 LRHS with a better reticle. Done.

THLR style reticle, I’d be in

 

[gbflyer]

You tell them which components to use then you pay them x dollars to test. The more you pay, the more they test. The NXS and PST were made on the same line, both came home in boxes, the difference being the pst was pulled off the shelf and shipped to customers with no idea if it was good or bad, the nxs was taken apart then bonded back together and tested in ID. Most of the scopes you guys complain about are built by low or equivalent.

Do you think SWFA tears down the SS and tests them? Honest question.

I don’t know about dropping every scope before it’s sent out. I think we’d run out of ammo. Must be another way.

 

[gbflyer]

THLR style reticle, I’d be in

That THLR is sweet. I’d declutter it just a little bit for a pure hunting rig.

 

[BjornF16]

That THLR is sweet. I’d declutter it just a little bit for a pure hunting rig.

Yup

 

[wapitibob]

Do you think SWFA tears down the SS and tests them? Honest question.

I don’t know about dropping every scope before it’s sent out. I think we’d run out of ammo. Must be another way.

nope
Nighforce only does it so they can bond the components on the nxs

 

[gbflyer]

The sport optic market is much, much less than I would have expected if this report is even close to correct. First sentence:

Sports Optic Market Size | Mordor Intelligence

The Sports Optic Market is projected to register a CAGR of 2.94% during the forecast period (2024-2029)

www.mordorintelligence.com

 

[Gargoyle]

and for F sakes, not an illuminated reticle. That will save lots!

 

[Macintosh]

That article says the GLOBAL sports optics market including all spotters, binos, rifle scopes, rangefinders, etc, from all brands, is only around 2 million dollars. You can toss that article in the trash, its not worth the time to read it. Honestly it reads as if it was auto-compiled by some sort of bot. If they did any research at all theyd see any one of their top companies does more business than that in the US alone. Has anyone been to leupold or vortex hq and seen how many employees are there? That doesnt exist in a 2mm global industry, even if you only look at the consumer portion of it as these “studies” do.

As far as the overall idea I like your attitude, but if you are actually trying to start a sustainable business I think youve got some very considerable work to do before you even think about product features. Or are you just trying to have one production run of scopes made for you and 499 of your best friends? Still lots to do. there is a reason (actually many reasons) not every tom dick and harry has their personal favorite product custom made for them and a few friends at a major asian manufacturing facility. Yes, anything is possible, but you will essentially be paying up front to bankroll all development and testing over the course of many months (remember, they have other actual paying customers who also want their time and resources), you will pay up front for materials, you may even need to pay a deposit well ahead to schedule manufacturing time if you have any sort of deadline, you’ll pay for shipping, duty and brokerage, and given that you arent already an existing good customer you have no leverage to request a small production run so its likely the minimum order quantity is surprisingly large—I dont know optics manufacturing but would not at all shock me if it was 1000 units or even much more given the overall situation. After you figure out all of the details (which you have already fronted considerable $ for), you can estimate a timeline and cost per unit. Then you can put together something of a business plan and start solidifying who is going to commit to all those scopes. This outline isnt complete or even that thought out and its a bit jumbled, etc, but you get the picture. Best case you’ll end up paying for prototypes and development, then pay something like a 30-50% deposit with the remainder due before shipping 6 months to a year later. Seriously, if all you are after is a couple scopes for yourself with a feature set you want, youd be better off selling the idea to an existing manufacturer or reseller who already has the majority of the boxes checked.