Low recoil rifle for elk, deer, etc. but .270 or larger caliber

[EastHumboldt]

Not really, no. A 150 grain out of a 7-08 will a) run about 2770 vs 2875 for the 308, and b) burn a fair bit less powder to do it. Using reloading data, we get:

7.5 lb rifle in both cases, and using kwk.us/recoil.html to calculate:

150 grain 7mm-08 at 2770 FPS using 40 grains of powder = 14.3 lbs of recoil (12.7 in an 8.5lb rifle).

150 grain 308 at 2875 FPS using 47 grains of powder = 17 lbs of recoil (15 in an 8.5 lb rifle)

So the 7mm-08 is around 16% less recoil. That's plenty less recoil to be noticably less, both on paper and in real life (I've owned Tikka's in both 308 and 7mm-08, and the 7mm-08 was very noticeably less recoil). There will be some variation in those recoil numbers depending on what powder factory ammo used, those are just what I use for my reloads (Varget in both cases), but not all that much.

I’m always open to learning. I see from examining Hodgdon tables for .308 and 7-08 that you are about 1/3 of the way up between min and max loads for varget on the 7-08, but maxed out on the .308 load, so of course more recoil would be expected using a 150 gr projectile. For 7-08, I use Staball 6.5 at 46gr behind a 150 ELDX which delivers more pressure and correspondingly puts the projectile in the same velocity class as the .308 with varget. What I should have said is “if both projectiles are launched at the same velocity” then recoil should be almost identical. I should note that I don’t use the max listed load of 48.5 gr because I get pressure signs. (This is out of a tikka T3x)

Am I correct in assuming that the .284 projectile with a higher BC will have flatter ballistics and maintain more velocity at 500 than would a .308 projectile at the same velocity?

 

[grfox92]

I’m always open to learning. I see from examining Hodgdon tables for .308 and 7-08 that you are about 1/3 of the way up between min and max loads for varget on the 7-08, but maxed out on the .308 load, so of course more recoil would be expected using a 150 gr projectile. For 7-08, I use Staball 6.5 at 46gr behind a 150 ELDX which delivers more pressure and correspondingly puts the projectile in the same velocity class as the .308 with varget. What I should have said is “if both projectiles are launched at the same velocity” then recoil should be almost identical.

Am I correct in assuming that the .284 projectile with a higher BC will have flatter ballistics and maintain more velocity at 500 than would a .308 projectile at the same velocity?

Im also open to learning, but as a guy who reloads for both 7mm08 and .308, I havent seen a combination yet where a
308 maintains more velocity than the 7mm08.

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[joliver2]

7-08 and 25-06

 

[Brandon_SPC]

The likelihood of you drawing a tag in KY is slim to none. You have roughly less than 1%...... So I would personally just buy whatever you want, then IF you draw a tag in KY, get a rifle that is .277 cal or bigger.

 

[EastHumboldt]

Tell your wife the internet consensus was buy whatever you want. Works for me!

 

[Mcsmith]

Tell your wife the internet consensus was buy whatever you want. Works for me!

Sounds logical. “Honey, the guys said it’s not possible to do unless I get two new guns” I’m sure I can make that work


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[ColPenguin]

If you draw a KY Elk tag then you can shoot it with my .308 CTR.

 

[landman650]

7mm-08 or 280ai

 

[UnckleBob]

Tell your wife the internet consensus was buy whatever you want. Works for me!

He could always leave the house with an empty rifle case after telling his wife that he is having the gunsmith take a look at it.
1) Buy what he wants
2) Dump the box and return with the new rifle in the rifle case.

 

[Pharmseller]

It is a once in 20 years draw odds tag. Plenty of use have said don't base a primary rifle on that what if and pick up a take off barrel or such.

He also might hunt out west, were dumb regulations don't mandate larger that a 6.5 for elk.

I once bought a new rifle because my brother had one and I didn’t.

 

[Pharmseller]

Not really, no. A 150 grain out of a 7-08 will a) run about 2770 vs 2875 for the 308, and b) burn a fair bit less powder to do it. Using reloading data, we get:

7.5 lb rifle in both cases, and using kwk.us/recoil.html to calculate:

150 grain 7mm-08 at 2770 FPS using 40 grains of powder = 14.3 lbs of recoil (12.7 in an 8.5lb rifle).

150 grain 308 at 2875 FPS using 47 grains of powder = 17 lbs of recoil (15 in an 8.5 lb rifle)

So the 7mm-08 is around 16% less recoil. That's plenty less recoil to be noticably less, both on paper and in real life (I've owned Tikka's in both 308 and 7mm-08, and the 7mm-08 was very noticeably less recoil). There will be some variation in those recoil numbers depending on what powder factory ammo used, those are just what I use for my reloads (Varget in both cases), but not all that much.

Run it again using 46.2 grains. Do the numbers change much? I don’t know of any powder where 40 grains gets you 2770 with a 150.

46.2 grains of Big Game gets me 2780 fps with a 150 out of a 7mm-08.

 

[Mcsmith]

He could always leave the house with an empty rifle case after telling his wife that he is having the gunsmith take a look at it.
1) Buy what he wants
2) Dump the box and return with the new rifle in the rifle case.

She’s not against me getting a new rifle, she’s actually encouraging me to buy decent rifle but when I bring up the idea of a rifle better for deer and a separate one better for elk is where she doesn’t follow along so that’s where I’m trying to decide on a do it all. And with the brakes I’m seeing I don’t think I’d have an issue with some of the larger caliber’s as much as long as I find a decent stock and caliber that’s not overkill on deer but still is over the .270 limit. So now I’m looking into ballistics in that recoil range and might just have to settle on a heavier rifle


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[Bobbyboe]

I didnt read through this entire post, but I wouldn't make a caliber decision based on lottery ticket odds. Get the caliber you want, and treat yourself to a new rifle if you stike gold.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

Run it again using 46.2 grains. Do the numbers change much? I don’t know of any powder where 40 grains gets you 2770 with a 150.

46.2 grains of Big Game gets me 2780 fps with a 150 out of a 7mm-08.

Not as much with 46.2, no. A hair, but not much. However, Varget, H4895 and most of the wide variety of powders in that ballpark will do it, probably running a hair hot to be fair (though QuickLoad thinks that 46.2 grains of BigGame is quite a bit hotter than any of the ones I ran). When I had my 7mm-08, I was running 42 grains of Varget for 2840FPS with a 140. Felt near identical to my 6.5 Creedmoor for recoil, and certainly way less than my 308 Tikka did.

Also to be fair, I did mention that some powders change the recoil profile pretty significantly (Win 760, Big Game, etc - a number of 4350-ish ball powders will fit a lot in a 7mm-08).

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

I’m always open to learning. I see from examining Hodgdon tables for .308 and 7-08 that you are about 1/3 of the way up between min and max loads for varget on the 7-08, but maxed out on the .308 load, so of course more recoil would be expected using a 150 gr projectile. For 7-08, I use Staball 6.5 at 46gr behind a 150 ELDX which delivers more pressure and correspondingly puts the projectile in the same velocity class as the .308 with varget. What I should have said is “if both projectiles are launched at the same velocity” then recoil should be almost identical. I should note that I don’t use the max listed load of 48.5 gr because I get pressure signs. (This is out of a tikka T3x)

Am I correct in assuming that the .284 projectile with a higher BC will have flatter ballistics and maintain more velocity at 500 than would a .308 projectile at the same velocity?

I used to run 42 grains of Varget under a 140 Accubond in my 7mm-08 (2840-something FPS), I was loosely guesstimating what I'd back the load down to for a 150 ELD-X. Maybe it would be closer to 41 or something, which would change the math slightly.

But on that general discussion - how much powder you burn in any cartridge makes a LOT of difference in recoil. For example, 150 grain accubond in my 30-06, chronograph says that 51 grains of Varget will get me about 2850 FPS, or 61-ish grains of Hunter will get me in the same neighborhood. Shoot them side by side, same bullet at roughly the same velocity, and you don't have to guess which one is which, LOL.

And yes, a 7mm with a good high BC bullet, at very modest velocity actually, at longer range, will flat out outrun any sub-magnum 30-cal shooting a bullet of even vaguely similar weight. To duplicate it in a bigger diameter bullet, costs a lot more recoil. For example, to duplicate my 175 ELD-X 7x57 load (very mild recoil, even in a 7.5 lb gun - 16.3 lbs says kwk.us) in my 30-06, takes a 212 grain ELD-X and a lot of slow-ish burning powder, and the recoil on that is starting to feel like a milder 300 Windbag load when it goes off (25.5lbs recoil says kwk.us).

270 bullets just have s**t for selection for genuinely high BC bullets, even the ELD-X 270 is very 'meh' compared to the 7mm variants.

7mm is the best mm, IMHO, LOL.

 

[coyotekilla]

Here's my suggestion... buy a dead air nomad L w/ brake. Put it on your 308, or whatever new gun you want that is 30 cal or less and you will be fine. Keep in mind, a heavy gun kicks less than a light 1, but heavy ones are, well... heavy. I would think a 30-06 or 300 wsm with a braked can would be the ticket.

 

[EastHumboldt]

270 bullets just have s**t for selection for genuinely high BC bullets, even the ELD-X 270 is very 'meh' compared to the 7mm variants.

7mm is the best mm, IMHO, LOL.

I didn’t even think about this. NID is right. You can hardly find a bullet heavier than 150gr in .277 while there’s a large selection of .284 bullets.

As previously mentioned … 7-08 is your huckleberry.

 

[nm.otter]

Does Tikka ship M+ mags with their 7mm-08 rifles? That would be a pretty sweet setup if you needed 7mm.