Long Range Hunting: Hold Over Reticle, Dial or Both?

[Marshfly]

You’re right. Sorry. Definitely can’t disagree with you. But, it’s happening with a BT or holdover. Not just one or the other.

You are right. My comment was about the 2 second snapshot at 500 or more. People are stupid and unethical.

 

[dreamingWest]

I practice both. I'm more accurate when I dial, even just outside MPBR. Therefore, I dial when hunting. Most people could probably have better outcomes shooting at wild animals if they would slow down and smooth out their shot sequence. (I keep telling myself this.)

 

[Robobiss]

Fair point. You didn’t say faster, you’re correct. My apologies.

Why in your opinion is it more accurate? Isn’t your BT developed off your load? So it takes into account your bullet grain, caliber, elevation, ambient temperature, etc,, correct? Well, what’s different about my holdovers? They are calculated the exact same way. All that information is input to determine my pins and crosshairs at each power magnification based on my load data. There’s no difference that I’m aware of. Also, what happens if you don’t have a zero stop on your BT and you go past zero and now you have no idea what your ranges are? Using holdovers eliminates this completely. I hunted with a guy that had that issue and he had no idea where he was shooting. He had to use a different rifle the remainder of the trip.

The issue you describe (with a scope that doesn’t have zero stops) is easily fixed before you hunt. Start at zero, crank the scope all the way down and count how many full rotations it takes to hit the stop (ignore the extra clicks that aren’t full rotations) Write this down with the rest of your dope.

If you ever get out of sorts in the field, take to all the way to the bottom, take it back up to the first “0” you get, and then crank however many full rotations you wrote down.

This takes less than a minute if you ever get yourself twisted up out in the field, just just have to pre-plan it and figure it out at the range prior to going hunting and write the number of rotations down with the rest of your dope.

 

[JiminAZ]

Whether myself or my boys, whenever we have a shot long enough to require dialing up (say over 350 yd), some things have to happen.

• Range the animal
• get into position and truly settled on the bipod or pack or whatever
• level the gun
• almost always - wait for the animal to present the shot turning broadside or stepping out from cover or out of line with other animals.
• breathe and........shoot

dialing involves looking at the dope table taped to the stock, usually while getting into position. Maybe 5 sec in a total process that can take from 30 sec to many minutes.

It is very rare that time is against us on a long shot. Usually the best thing we can do is take a little time to build a solid position to execute an accurate shot. The dialing process is just a few seconds.

When time is against us on a long shot, a ballistic reticle won't really solve the problem. Takes a bit of time to build a position suitable to the shot and if the animal is moving that fast or that spooky, it's a lost cause already.

So yeah, we dial for distance and hold for wind.

 

[Agomez]

Dial elevation. Hold wind.

 

[ddowning]

The real answer to the op's question is to shoot more. It is a situational thing. The more you shoot, the better you understand when to apply which technique. I personally think a mil based system in ffp is the most versatile. A piece of tape on the turrets with some marks and you have a bdc system. You can use the mph gun or bc method for calling wind. In a lot of standard cartridges you can use speed drop. You can hold over. You can dial, and you can do it at any magnification you like.

Personally, I like to dial elevation and hold wind. I hold over a lot when animals are jumpy. Culling does is one example. If the group is at 600 yards I dial to 600 and shoot one. They run 30 yards and stop. Hold .3 high and hold wind. Shoot another one.

It is rare that I hold over hunting, but I have on occasion when a coyote was just outside mpbr and I knew the distance. Having shot a ton using both methods, I can tell you that dialing both wind and elevation is the most accurate. If the wind is switchy or you are pressed for time, dialing elevation and holding wind is pretty damn good. Holding both elevation and wind is not as precise as the other 2 methods. It is also slower unless you have the dope memorized. By the time you look at a dope chart and find the spot in the reticle, you could have dialed.

 

[JiminAZ]

I would also add that when shooting ground squirrels or other vermin elimination, a holdover/tree/bdc reticle is often more appropriate. Usually the gun is in position and you are engaging multiple targets quickly, and a miss is not a heartbreaker.

Different than the single shot on that elk you waited 7 years to get the tag for.

 

[matthewj042]

Do any of you guys use the Tremor 3 reticle?

 

[Formidilosus]

Do any of you guys use the Tremor 3 reticle?

Not if you want to hit anything smaller than an E-type.

 

[Gila]

If you can’t hit any large game out to 450 yards without twisting turrets then you don’t shoot your rifle very much. Not enough to be to hunting with it IMO. For decades all I ever used was a simple duplex reticle. Sighted in at 200 yards, put the turret caps back on and never touched the scope again for 20 years. I didn’t miss either. It was my pronghorn rifle. Any follow up shots were for coup de grace. I had a flat shooting rifle, shooting the same ammo. I am not considered to be a good shot though.

 

[bmart2622]

Why not use advancements in technology and shoot more accurately?

 

[JohnJohnson]

If you can’t hit any large game out to 450 yards without twisting turrets then you don’t shoot your rifle very much. Not enough to be to hunting with it IMO. For decades all I ever used was a simple duplex reticle.

But if you have a good scope with turrets, why not use them? Why make it more difficult for ego when you're shooting at an animal?

 

[bmart2622]

Because then you cant puff your chest on Rokslide

 

[deltadukman]

If you can set your scope with a zero stop and count in increments of 4, you can dial correctly without looking at your turrets. I hunt big ag fields in the southeast and out of box blinds and ground blinds. I do it all the time in fading light. Also, if it's almost too dark to see out of one, you aren't shooting 600 yards. And those Christmas tree reticles are hard to see at almost dark too. Once it gets that dark you are asking to mess up on what deer you are shooting at. At max, you're looking at 300 yards and in when its dark.

 

[General RE LEE]

One advantage of using a reticle vs dialing is your turret remains at zero. People are reluctant to admit error but it’s possible to dial and with all the excitement forget to return it to zero. I’m not opposed to dialing, but at typical shot distances, having a hold over reticle is fast and effective.

 

[MidGAHunter]

One advantage of using a reticle vs dialing is your turret remains at zero. People are reluctant to admit error but it’s possible to dial and with all the excitement forget to return it to zero. I’m not opposed to dialing, but at typical shot distances, having a hold over reticle is fast and effective.

How much experience do you have shooting under timed pressure from field positions, dialing and holding over? I'm not talking bench shooting with unlimited time and no pressure. I'm not talking shooting house over a wide open field with all day to shoot at a deer that is casually feeding. I'm talking legitimate timed pressure. So...what's your experience? I can tell you flat out that for many in that kind of situation it is easier and faster to dial elevation and hold wind (if needed).

 

[Shortschaf]

How much experience do you have shooting under timed pressure from field positions, dialing and holding over? I'm not talking bench shooting with unlimited time and no pressure. I'm not talking shooting house over a wide open field with all day to shoot at a deer that is casually feeding. I'm talking legitimate timed pressure. So...what's your experience? I can tell you flat out that for many in that kind of situation it is easier and faster to dial elevation and hold wind (if needed).

Its not that hard relax

 

[MidGAHunter]

Its not that hard relax

So you don't want discussion on a message board. Got it.

Tone cannot be picked up consistently on the internet, so let me put it in a different way. I was simply asking a question about his experience dialing vs holding over under timed pressure (I'm guessing he has very little of said experience based on his past posts on this forum and I'm not insulting him by saying so...it is simply an observation). If people have not tested themselves in those situations they should consider doing so. He listed an "advantage" without qualifying how he actually came to that as an advantage, so I asked some questions. In reality, a shooter that can't get his/her turret to the right place probably also won't hold over correctly either (especially when the adrenaline is flowing and your time is limited). I used to be one that thought a reticle holdover was faster. Then I timed myself doing both and for me it was unquestionably faster to dial elevation and use the center crosshair (or center wind marks if wind holds are needed) than to get to the right holdover hash mark. Rather than THINKING one way may be an advantage over the other, people should test themselves and see.

 

[Shortschaf]

I used to be one that thought a reticle holdover was faster. Then I timed myself doing both and for me it was unquestionably faster to dial elevation and use the center crosshair

My experience was identical to this. I agree and think most people would find dialing to be best in 99% of cases. If only by a small margin. Easy thing to test

Your previous post did come off as insulting/internet-warriorish to me so thanks for clarifying. I didn't have to be rude with my response. I was just beginning to think that the deer shoot back in your area!

 

[Wrongside]

I much prefer to dial ele, hold wind. But there have been a few instances where holding was faster, or worked better for the situation. Its worth practicing both, IMO/E.