Light vs Heavy Arrow real life trajectory experiment

[ianpadron]

This video didn’t really show anything. I tested arrow weights of 406, 430, and 480 and found that there’s a huge difference in trajectory between those weights. No big surprise to me, but others don’t seem to grasp the obvious.

If he wanted to show the actual trajectory difference, he would keep that same 25 yard zero and then bring his target to half that distance. He would then see a world of difference.

Huh? How far above the lighter arrows apex are you saying the heavier ones fly prior to dropping?

 

[N2TRKYS]

Huh? How far above the lighter arrows apex are you saying the heavier ones fly prior to dropping?

I did the test about 3 summers ago, so I don’t remember how many inches it moved. It was the difference between a shot in the vitals and a wounded or missed deer, though.
When you start practicing this year, give a try and see what you find. I bet you’ll see a big difference.

 

[Wrench]

I shoot for 180fps. If I do this, all of my bows shoot very similarly.

 

[ianpadron]

I did the test about 3 summers ago, so I don’t remember how many inches it moved. It was the difference between a shot in the vitals and a wounded or missed deer, though.
When you start practicing this year, give a try and see what you find. I bet you’ll see a big difference.

lol, been practicing since the snow melted in March...not much of an off-season

I was shooting 447, 547, and 647 grainers last week out of a 50# long bow and noticed nothing significant aside from extra noise and wrist slap with the lighter arrows, at least out to 25 yards where I was shooting. Hits from 5 to 25 were no easier/harder.

 

[N2TRKYS]

lol, been practicing since the snow melted in March...not much of an off-season

I was shooting 447, 547, and 647 grainers last week out of a 50# long bow and noticed nothing significant aside from extra noise and wrist slap with the lighter arrows, at least out to 25 yards where I was shooting. Hits from 5 to 25 were no easier/harder.

You would see a huge difference with that much weight difference. However, based off your response, I don’t think you understand the test.

 

[ianpadron]

You would see a huge difference with that much weight difference. However, based off your response, I don’t think you understand the test.

What kind of "huge" difference are you referring to?

The test question was "does a heavier arrow make vital hits inside 25 yards harder."

My experience and the test video is an emphatic "no"

Past that range, absolutely. I don't hunt past that, nor do most guys, so the light/heavy debate is essentially pointless since it doesn't make a lick of real world difference.

The snarky responses are something else though

 

[bowhuntercoop]

What kind of "huge" difference are you referring to?

The test question was "does a heavier arrow make vital hits inside 25 yards harder."

My experience and the test video is an emphatic "no"

Past that range, absolutely. I don't hunt past that, nor do most guys, so the light/heavy debate is essentially pointless since it doesn't make a lick of real world difference.

The snarky responses are something else though

I know going from a 500 grain arrow to 600 grain arrow is around 18-20 inch difference at 20 yards. A 450 grain arrow at 165-170 has consistent and way smaller gaps then a heavy arrow.

Take all those arrows and aim at the dot dead center with the tip of the arrow, measure each arrow. You’re going to have massive group size gaps with arrow weights being so different and heavy.

I won’t shoot over 10gpp with any trad gear, no need. Been blowing through critters with 8-10gpp at my tiny 25.5 draw length and 45-50lb long bows for years.

The range makes a huge difference for trad hunters actually. If you have the same gap from 5-25 yards it’s the same hold for hunting ranges. If you get a heavy arrow with a point on of say 25 yards, you will without a doubt have a gap at 15-20-30 yards all differenent sizes. The faster, flatter shooting trajectory makes for more consistent shooting imo.

 

[bowhuntercoop]

One thing I’ve also noticed is if matters if you gap at the bow or the target. Most gap at the bow if they shoot “ instinctive” and don’t even know it.

Setting up a target with an aiming point and tip of the arrow as a pin, then actually measure each group with a tape measure. Shoot all 3 arrow wieghts at 20 yards, using the tip of the arrow, same anchor. You will be shocked to see the group size spread. Then figure out what gap you like the best and go from there.

 

[LostArra]

Setting up a target with an aiming point and tip of the arrow as a pin, then actually measure each group with a tape measure. Shoot all 3 arrow wieghts at 20 yards, using the tip of the arrow, same anchor. You will be shocked to see the group size spread. Then figure out what gap you like the best and go from there.

How is this different than the video except it adds a human element (aiming and releasing)? I'm not arguing I just want to understand your results vs the video.

Is it possible that some bows handle various weight arrows better than others?
All 50# bows at 28" are not equal. Used in that video, the first selfbow I made would have scattered arrows all over the yard
The results of the video may be accurate/reliable only for his bow.

 

[N2TRKYS]

What kind of "huge" difference are you referring to?

The test question was "does a heavier arrow make vital hits inside 25 yards harder."

My experience and the test video is an emphatic "no"

Past that range, absolutely. I don't hunt past that, nor do most guys, so the light/heavy debate is essentially pointless since it doesn't make a lick of real world difference.

The snarky responses are something else though

Nothing snarky about it. I’m sure you don’t understand it now.

If you use a fixed pin set at 30 yards(in my case or 25 yards in your case) and walked it in to half that distance, you would see a big difference.

It doesn’t take a long range shot to see the difference.

 

[bowhuntercoop]

How is this different than the video except it adds a human element (aiming and releasing)? I'm not arguing I just want to understand your results vs the video.

Is it possible that some bows handle various weight arrows better than others?
All 50# bows at 28" are not equal. Used in that video, the first selfbow I made would have scattered arrows all over the yard
The results of the video may be accurate/reliable only for his bow.

Bows deff matter. Some bows are more efficient then others. Just an example. Toelkes are beautiful bows. Everyone I’ve owned I’ve had to draw 4-6lbs heavier then my stalkers to get the same speeds. South’s limbs are just crazy efficient. So 100 percent the bow matters.

 

[bowhuntercoop]

I just watched the video again. The 700 grain arrow he said is cut shorter, well that right there is gunna make the point on distance longer. 1/2 of an inch of an arrow is a pileeeee of distance for point on.

I like Jeff but that’s a click bait video. The arrows all need to be the same length for the test to be accurate. Same arrow diameter as well if you wanna get nitty gritty. A .204 shaft will have a different point on compared to a standard .246 even outta a shooting machine.

I can take my 500 grain grain warriors cut to 27.5 carbon to carbon. It’s a 41 yard point on. If I cut the arrow to 27, 1/2 inch shorter and make the tip weight equal so the total arrow weight is 500 my point on goes to 53 yards. Just by removing half and inch of arrow.

Take his first 450 grain arrow and find the point on with the machine. Then shoot all those arrows and see the spread, would be massive.

That’s why I said most guys gap at the bow and don’t realize it so that can’t visualize how big the gaps at the target really are with different weight arrows.

The push has a good video of the flight trajectory and what it does to an arrow.

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

What does arrow length, point on or even arrow diameter have to do with anything in his video? He's simply showing the difference in impact point across different weight arrows out of the same bow.

I thought it was as a well-made video and the results mirror my own experience. Even at 35 yds with an increase of 50 grs of arrow weight (575 to 625) I only see about a 4" difference in impact location out of a 58lb bow.

 

[Beendare]

I shoot for 180fps. If I do this, all of my bows shoot very similarly.

Makes sense shooting the same trajectory that is grooved into your psyche.

I shoot for 190.

 

[ianpadron]

Nothing snarky about it. I’m sure you don’t understand it now.

If you use a fixed pin set at 30 yards(in my case or 25 yards in your case) and walked it in to half that distance, you would see a big difference.

It doesn’t take a long range shot to see the difference.

No...

What does this "big difference" which remains unquantified by you, mean in the field?

If I shoot a 110 grain bullet out of a .30-06, then a 220 grain bullet out of the same rifle without adjusting the scope...of course that's an issue. If you take into account that your AIMING needs to account for your projectile, it affects nothing at reasonable ranges in terms of hits, accuracy, precision, etc.

If I can walk into my backyard and pinwheel a target with arrows that have a 200 grain delta, then that isn't a "big difference".

You're acting like a heavy arrow has a trajectory closer to a brick than a 400 grain stick and will cause misses while hunting.

My experience mirrors that in the video, you're free to share some data illustrating the point you're trying to make.

 

[bowhuntercoop]

What does arrow length, point on or even arrow diameter have to do with anything in his video? He's simply showing the difference in impact point across different weight arrows out of the same bow.

I thought it was as a well-made video and the results mirror my own experience. Even at 35 yds with an increase of 50 grs of arrow weight (575 to 625) I only see about a 4" difference in impact location out of a 58lb bow.

You’re draw length must be 29-30 inches. 4 inches at 35 yards for only 50 grains is a lot. At my 25.5 draw that would prolly be 25-30 inches, yet Jeff only got what 5 inches going from 450 to 700????

I understand why guys shoot heavier arrows for 20 and in, the gap might only be 9 inches, hence why the fixed crawl works. When you have a normal point on, say 40-60 yards, most split fingers guys will be 60-70 yards, you’re gap from 10-40 yards is the same. So the sight pictures is the same either at the bow or animal.

I gap at the bow, but if I use the tip of the arrow it’s always under a deers feet. From 5-30 yards same sight picture, same hold.

I could do his test and for similar results at 20-25 yards. Step back to 40/50/60 yards and watch those heavy arrows trajectory then. That 5 inches at 25 is now 30-40 inches at 50-60 yards.

Im not arguing with anyone just what I’ve learned from years of killing stuff with a stick. Fixed crawl works for guys first learn because it makes for smaller gaps at the target. As soon as you go past the point on its a terrible aiming system. Now, most guys don’t shoot at critter past 20-25 yards or targets. I learned really quick hunting out west you better be able to kill at 30-40 yards if you wanna bring some meat home!

 

[bowhuntercoop]

No...

What does this "big difference" which remains unquantified by you, mean in the field?

If I shoot a 110 grain bullet out of a .30-06, then a 220 grain bullet out of the same rifle without adjusting the scope...of course that's an issue. If you take into account that your AIMING needs to account for your projectile, it affects nothing at reasonable ranges in terms of hits, accuracy, precision, etc.

If I can walk into my backyard and pinwheel a target with arrows that have a 200 grain delta, then that isn't a "big difference".

You're acting like a heavy arrow has a trajectory closer to a brick than a 400 grain stick and will cause misses while hunting.

My experience mirrors that in the video, you're free to share some data illustrating the point you're trying to make.

Bingo you said it right there. YOUR aiming and adjusting at the bow or target. You might be able to shoot that 200 grain delta “ instinctively” and be fine for the 20 and in hunting ranges. Say that buck stop at 37 yards? Now what? When shooting the flatter tracjectory arrow it’s the exact same sight picture from like 5-30, 10-35 yards depending on your anchor and point on.

You’re rifle scenario is close, most guys can’t Kentucky windage a rifle past 200-250 yards let alone compare round with speed difference of 1000s of feet per second.

Guys are happy to shoot what they like and are confident in. Over 50 deer with a stick and I have yet to find a reason to ever shoot an arrow over 10 gpp. Fred Bear had it figured out at 9gpp imo.

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

You’re draw length must be 29-30 inches. 4 inches at 35 yards for only 50 grains is a lot. At my 25.5 draw that would prolly be 25-30 inches, yet Jeff only got what 5 inches going from 450 to 700????

I understand why guys shoot heavier arrows for 20 and in, the gap might only be 9 inches, hence why the fixed crawl works. When you have a normal point on, say 40-60 yards, most split fingers guys will be 60-70 yards, you’re gap from 10-40 yards is the same. So the sight pictures is the same either at the bow or animal.

I gap at the bow, but if I use the tip of the arrow it’s always under a deers feet. From 5-30 yards same sight picture, same hold.

I could do his test and for similar results at 20-25 yards. Step back to 40/50/60 yards and watch those heavy arrows trajectory then. That 5 inches at 25 is now 30-40 inches at 50-60 yards.

Im not arguing with anyone just what I’ve learned from years of killing stuff with a stick. Fixed crawl works for guys first learn because it makes for smaller gaps at the target. As soon as you go past the point on its a terrible aiming system. Now, most guys don’t shoot at critter past 20-25 yards or targets. I learned really quick hunting out west you better be able to kill at 30-40 yards if you wanna bring some meat home!

He shows 5" going from 450 to 700 at 25 yds. I see a 4" difference going from 575 to 625 at 35yds. There's a hell of a difference. At 25 yds I'd only see about an inch or less in impact change with a 50 gr weight change, which mirrors what Jeff's testing shows.

Of course if you step back to 40, 50, 60 the difference is going to grow significantly, that's obvious, but that's not what he's testing.

 

[bowhuntercoop]

He shows 5" going from 450 to 700 at 25 yds. I see a 4" difference going from 575 to 625 at 35yds. There's a hell of a difference. At 25 yds I'd only see about an inch or less in impact change with a 50 gr weight change, which mirrors what Jeff's testing shows.

Of course if you step back to 40, 50, 60 the difference is going to grow significantly, that's obvious, but that's not what he's testing.

I can I only go off what I have done. Maybe it’s do to my short 25.5 draw? I know my main arrows are 480 grains. If I bump to 600 I have to aim 20 inches higher on the target at 25 yards.

I can take the same 480 grain arrow. Crawl down the string 1/2 inch and have a 25 yards fixed crawl. Hold the armpit of a rhineharrt elk at 20, and the back at 30 and they all hit center. That’s a 7-8 inch gap at the target. With a 600 grain arrow cut the same length and using the same 25 yard crawl those arrows completely miss the elk target. They actually have a 16 yard point on. I haven’t hold over the elks back a good 15-20 inches at 30 yards to hit center.

I might have to dig out the hooter shooter and start some testing haha. The problem is I’ve settled on 480 grains, 50lb longbow at my 25.5 draw because I’ve killed everything with it. No issues with pass through from elk to deer to pigs.

 

[N2TRKYS]

No...

What does this "big difference" which remains unquantified by you, mean in the field?

If I shoot a 110 grain bullet out of a .30-06, then a 220 grain bullet out of the same rifle without adjusting the scope...of course that's an issue. If you take into account that your AIMING needs to account for your projectile, it affects nothing at reasonable ranges in terms of hits, accuracy, precision, etc.

If I can walk into my backyard and pinwheel a target with arrows that have a 200 grain delta, then that isn't a "big difference".

You're acting like a heavy arrow has a trajectory closer to a brick than a 400 grain stick and will cause misses while hunting.

My experience mirrors that in the video, you're free to share some data illustrating the point you're trying to make.

I already shared an example with you, but you ignored it I guess. It’s the difference between hitting a deer and missing or just wounding it. If you would do the test I’m talking about you would see the difference for yourself. There’s a huge difference in trajectory, but again, I think you’re missing the point.

Stay focused on topic and not try to add other analogies that seem to be confusing you.