Lets talk Chainsaws

[Thinkingman]

I had a stihl 271 farmboss, it was great. Its motor seized up and, although I plan to repair it myself eventually, I was told to have it repaired would cost so much I might as well buy a new one. I was in between the the following for my farm use:

Stihl M261 C-M
Husqvarna 550xp mk ii
Echo CS590

All are professional grade chainsaws. Narrowed it down to the echo and stihl, and then went to buy them and the guy in the shop, which had both, said he honestly loved them both and I’d be happy with either, BUT, the echo was only $383 compared to the Stihl which was almost double, AND the echo had a 5 year warranty compared to the Stihls 1 year (both have a 1 year warranty for commercial use). Needless to say, the echo was an easy choice and it has been fantastic. It also had a larger motor than the echo and the option to go all the way up to a 24” bar. The stihl can only go up to 20”. I got it in the 20” version anyway since that can meet 99% of my needs. I’ve already put it to use and I like it even more than I liked my farm boss.

I’ll also add, I do love stihl, and my stepdad has been a life long stihl fan, he has multiple stihl chainsaws and weedwackers, but after he cut up a few trees with the CS 590, he went right out and bought one as well.

I bought a CS590 out of necessity when I had a spruce split during a windstorm.
I went into HD looking for the 490 they said was in stock and they couldn't find one so they discounted the 590 to the same price.
That thing doesn't play around.
Nice machine, magnesium case, tons of power.
It was heavier than what I wanted but a great machine.
I ended up selling it for more than I paid.

 

[doc holiday13]

Here is a question for super knowledgeable guys.. If I wanted to buy a used chainsaw from marketplace or craigslist and stumbled across a saw thats priced great but seller says it doesn't run. What tools would I want to bring for a quick diagnosis? I ask because i recently found a 461 semi local for a screaming deal, but seller says it hasn't been run in 3 years and he can't get it started

 

[Backyard]

Here is a question for super knowledgeable guys.. If I wanted to buy a used chainsaw from marketplace or craigslist and stumbled across a saw thats priced great but seller says it doesn't run. What tools would I want to bring for a quick diagnosis? I ask because i recently found a 461 semi local for a screaming deal, but seller says it hasn't been run in 3 years and he can't get it started

Just buy it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steve300xcw]

Here is a question for super knowledgeable guys.. If I wanted to buy a used chainsaw from marketplace or craigslist and stumbled across a saw thats priced great but seller says it doesn't run. What tools would I want to bring for a quick diagnosis? I ask because i recently found a 461 semi local for a screaming deal, but seller says it hasn't been run in 3 years and he can't get it started

what are we calling a screaming deal?

 

[TaperPin]

Googling chainsaw accident photos is a good starting place for self learners. Lots of good instruction in print and online. What you won’t see are the gotchas specific to your area.

I was a longer bar away from killing 5 guys when I was 18 on a fire crew sitting around on standby. To stay busy we were putting in some barbed wire fence around some FS buildings, and a 5’ diameter sugar pine blew over where the fence was going. Huge rootball and 6 of us were using the rootball for shade having lunch. Our saw only had a 20” bar, but I figured I could take enough chunks out to eventually get through it before a sawyer showed up with a big bar. I was halfway through when the big saw showed up and he had the guys under the football move. As soon as the trunk was cut, 20’ up from the rootball, it stood back up and would have easily killed anyone under the roots. I was maybe an hour away from killing the 5 guys sitting there.

On more common cutting situations a coworker had an 8” lodgepole tree hang up, so he cut another tree to help push it down, the first small tree fell back catching him on the calf as he ran out of the way, and caused a full break of his lower leg. As the EMTs were getting him on a board and straightened out the 90 degree bend halfway between his knee and ankle, I couldn’t help telling him it looks like that hurts, and he assured me it did. lol He has always had a good limp after that between ligament tears that didn’t heal correctly, crappy workman’s comp, and I think his leg is a little shorter.

It’s human nature to assume falling trees are intuitive, but a big barber chair can come at you fast and no amount of OJT self learning will get you out of the way quick enough if you aren’t expecting it. Same for big falling tops or even limbs that get knocked off. How many new saw owners understand the importance of having wedges available? I bet half the guys in the field don’t even carry them.

We were cutting firewood and I swore this big old dead tree had a lean, but wouldn’t fall and I didn’t have anything to pound wedges with. 22 year old boy brain thought I’d just cut through the hinge and it would fall backward, don’t ever do that. I cut the hinge and it just sat there, a 20” tree perfectly balanced on the stump ready to fall in any direction. I should have not cut the hinge and made a new pie and back cut in the correct direction just above the one that didn’t work, but that wasn’t something I knew about then. I knew being at the trunk I could side step it if it started to fall, but after a few minutes you just have to get away from it and hope it doesn’t fall on you. *chuckle* That tree never fell while we were there, but it was on an open slope so it might have taken a week for a mild breeze to come along. Luckily we were way out in the sticks, or we’d have to pull it over to be safe. Probably should have done that anyway.

I’ve watched a big dead tree lose all its branches as it hit the ground and roll over a dude down hill going 100 mph. It looked like a cartoon, but he was ok.

A young guy running a saw on a hand crew under me had his hand wrapped up and he kept hiding from me. I didn’t care if he cut himself, that’s usually a bus ride home if I called him on it, but wanted to make sure he had what he needed to keep it clean and properly dressed. He had a whopper of a skin flap from a single sharp tooth. He kept it closed and it never started to get infected, but I should have sent him home for stitches, it did help him out though. He was stitched up back home and it worked out.

The bar kickback can be really dramatic for new guys with a loose grip, especially when they want to look directly down on the bar, which means when it kicks back it’s directly in line with their head.

Driving back home dead tired after a hard day cutting firewood is probably as dangerous as anything you can do with a saw. Be safe.

 

[doc holiday13]

what are we calling a screaming deal?

$350 and comes with a 25" bar. Seems all the plastics and sideplate are intack

 

[Steve300xcw]

I'd just snag the thing and figure out wtf sometime this winter

 

[TaperPin]

Here is a question for super knowledgeable guys.. If I wanted to buy a used chainsaw from marketplace or craigslist and stumbled across a saw thats priced great but seller says it doesn't run. What tools would I want to bring for a quick diagnosis? I ask because i recently found a 461 semi local for a screaming deal, but seller says it hasn't been run in 3 years and he can't get it started

I love used Stihl saws because they have always been easy to diagnose.

You need spark, compression, crankcase integrity, air flow in, air flow out, and fuel.

I always bring a good flashlight, little bottle of 2 stroke mix, scrench to pull the plug and air cleaner, Torx bits to pull the muffler. If you had a bore scope that could focus on cylinder walls that would be ideal.

Turn the saw over, pull the bar, pull the air cleaner cover and look carefully at the case and parts for cracks. The other part of the case that might leak are the seals on both ends of the crankshaft, but those require a leak down test of the crank case and isn’t something you’ll be able to do in the field.

Air in is the air cleaner - as long as it’s somewhat clean you’re good to go, or rinse with gas mix and tap it to get rid of excess. Air out is the muffler - pull the spark arrestor screen out and if it’s plugged there’s your problem.

Spark is just watching the spark plug jump to the case. If it doesn’t spark the on off switch might be shorted, or bad coil. That’s good news since they are cheap.

You can dribble some gas through the spark plug hole and it will still fire if it’s a fuel delivery problem or crankcase seals, or jug gasket are bad, but won’t help if compression is bad.

A carb that isn’t getting wet might have a blocked fuel filter, kinked hose, missing clunker in the tank, ethanol fuel chunks blocking jets (most likely problem), impulse diaphragm split, or the impulse line from the crankcase is damaged or blocked.

If compression is bad, and it most likely will be what killed it, you’ll see big scores on the piston by looking through the exhaust port. That automotive bore scope will also show the same. A compression tester is maybe the quickest check. I’ve taken a saw the saw shop said had bad compression from straight gas and is not worth fixing, replaced the piston rings, kept the scored up piston, honed the jug within an inch of its life and it ran for years without issue, although blow by did cause it have 85% power. If the crank bearings are shot that’s $200 in parts. I’ve pulled two other saws out of the scrap bin, replaced the jugs/pistons and they ran like new saws.

That’s all I know and all I’ve needed to know to keep 5 saws running on a fire crew for a decade.

 

[longrangelead]

I would cruise marketplace and look for a Stihl 044, 046 0r 461. I abhor saws that won't start and all homeowner and ranch saws eventually fit that description. I have a couple 372's and they are good saws, but boy are they temperamental.

unless you have time and or money, I recommend people new to chainsaws stay away from used saws unless they know it's history.

I've bought LOTS of used saws and most "won't start, needs a carb kit" is a roached top end or worse.

If I can't get it for what it's worth in parts, I pass.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

$350 and comes with a 25" bar. Seems all the plastics and sideplate are intack

If the bar is in reasonably good shape $350 is pretty decent. 461's didn't have a long life span before they were replaced. Usually there's a reason (I'm not a stihl fanatic but follow them and own enough of them 660, 460, 201T). IIRC 461's had some reoccuring issues but can't remember what they were now. similar to 441's which i believe were crankcase/bearing problems. the 462's however have been an unbelieavable saw and the 044/046/440/460's IMO were (to date) stihls best saw they ever made.

at 350 it might be worth the gamble and if rings/jug is fried you could put an aftermarket in at low $$ and "stihl" have a reasonably good and cheap enough pro-saw.

 

[longrangelead]

Here is a question for super knowledgeable guys.. If I wanted to buy a used chainsaw from marketplace or craigslist and stumbled across a saw thats priced great but seller says it doesn't run. What tools would I want to bring for a quick diagnosis? I ask because i recently found a 461 semi local for a screaming deal, but seller says it hasn't been run in 3 years and he can't get it started

I always pulled the spark plug and muffler to look at cylinder/piston.
99% of the time the exhaust side gets hot and scores.
most saws you can see the cylinder above the exhaust port through the spark plug hole.
pull the muffler and check the piston.
check spark and compression too.

I offer 25%-50% of new depending on condition of saw and demand for that particular model unless it's dirt cheap.

 

[TaperPin]

Out of curiosity I looked at eBay to see what the availability of parts is and there are all the 461 parts on there. I say go for it if you like to tinker, but use a flashlight and carefully scan for cracks, and just assume the jug and piston are toast.

 

[longrangelead]

Interesting. I had read stories like that prior to buying but the C model is what the shop had when i was buying and it's been great. Actually, it did have issues starting once after getting hot and shutting down and i thought "aw shit, here we go" but ive never had an issue again and with my use its always on and off. How long did you run it before offloading it? Well past any break-in and tuning window for the saw?

How long ago was the saw purchased? I know they have had multiple m-tronic updates.

There was definitely a period where the M-Tronics had issues and a year or so of 362's were an example of that. problem coils iirc

"typically" fail to hot start is the fuel solenoid starting to go out. change the solenoid and go again.

The inner workings of a M-Tronic carb are almost identical to a standard saw except the fuel is metered through a solenoid in conjunction with the ECM/coil based on RPM/load.

Now is a great time because covid killed to move to all electronic. Right now you can buy almost all pro saws with either carb or M-tronic. I think the 500i and 400 are electronic only.

My experience with M-tronic is they got it figured out now. I personally had a 462c, 661c and 400c.
I was disappointed with the 462 power even after adding exhaust and filter mods.
I put a bark box exhaust and air filter on the 400 and Holy crap did that wake it up! the 400 responds to just exhaust like most saws do to porting. After putting the exhaust on the 400, I sold the 462.
The 661c I bought from a logger that needed cash. I ran it in some big firewood logs against my ported 064. I preferred the 064.
Then I mildly ported the 661 just enough to help it breath. Again, holy crap! It would rev quick like a 70cc saw but pull 36" of full comp chisel and want more with a 9 tooth sprocket!
The guy I bought it from ran it and wouldn't leave until I sold it back to him.
The point is the M-tronic "learns" what the saw needs and does a great job in the last 5 years or so.

I also ported a few 362c's. After they're ported properly, they can actually breath and are impressive little saws.