Let them grow?

[DenimChicken]

It's easier to let them pass when you live on or near prime habitat. For guys who travel far in state or hunt different states, it becomes a much harder proposition. You don't know if you will get to hunt the same area the next year (or ever).

 

[manitou1]

How do you let deer grow when deer numbers are down but tags are doubled?

You don't. The reason we have so few big bucks any more. So many people shooting 2-3 year old bucks now.

 

[manitou1]

It's easier to let them pass when you live on or near prime habitat. For guys who travel far in state or hunt different states, it becomes a much harder proposition. You don't know if you will get to hunt the same area the next year (or ever).

So they ruin it for the residents.

Take the Eastern states and send 20,000 hunters to their state to shoot all their yearling whitetails and see how much they appreciate it.

I hate it.

 

[CorbLand]

Cutting tags to save big deer has worked so well that we have been doing it for nearly 40 years and we are only one more 50% cut in tags away from it working this time.

 

[bradyhunt]

You'll have to convince a large chunk of tag holders who are only hunting for meat- that they shouldn't put that venison in their freezer because your desire to shoot a trophy is more important.

 

[littlebigtine]

1) HABITAT
2)WEATHER
3)PREDATION

These are in order the major influences on deer mortality. Really HABITAT and WEATHER are the same. One we have some control over. The other not so much.

You want big bucks? Focus on the number 1 determining factor: Habitat.

You think predation is the limiting factor? You dont want to shoot a dink? Thats fine but the effect isnt as directly correlated to your desired outcome as you think.
.5-2 yr old deer have a very high mortality rate but not because of hunting. Because the world is a dangerous, unforgiving thing.
I see as much roadkill on the side of my local highways as fish and game records buck harvest in my local units on an annual basis. Id guess that %75 lying in the ditch are fawns.

We are hunters so naturally you look to hunting to figure out ways to improve deer numbers but id wager that our efforts are better spent protecting wildlife corridors or replanting burns on winter range.

Conservation is way more than not pulling a trigger

 

[roadrunner]

Decrease on big deer: 1, 2, and 3 of post #26 above.

AND ~

Ability to accurately shoot long(er) distances, report of the rifle not scaring off the animal (aka the increased use of suppressors), glamorizing big deer pics (increase of young pup "outfitters") and other social media stuff.

 

[LostWapiti]

1) HABITAT
2)WEATHER
3)PREDATION

These are in order the major influences on deer mortality. Really HABITAT and WEATHER are the same. One we have some control over. The other not so much.

You want big bucks? Focus on the number 1 determining factor: Habitat.

You think predation is the limiting factor? You dont want to shoot a dink? Thats fine but the effect isnt as directly correlated to your desired outcome as you think.
.5-2 yr old deer have a very high mortality rate but not because of hunting. Because the world is a dangerous, unforgiving thing.
I see as much roadkill on the side of my local highways as fish and game records buck harvest in my local units on an annual basis. Id guess that %75 lying in the ditch are fawns.

We are hunters so naturally you look to hunting to figure out ways to improve deer numbers but id wager that our efforts are better spent protecting wildlife corridors or replanting burns on winter range.

Conservation is way more than not pulling a trigger

Bingo, hunting always feels like the easy answer but habitat is king. Increasing all deer survival is what will turn out big bucks. If you can sustainably double the deer in the landscape you will magically start pumping out tons of big bucks in a few years. The key being that there has to be carrying capacity to support those deer.

 

[Lelder]

I'm not sure you can manage any numbers or quality without owning or having control of a vast amount of property. All we do is try to not shoot any does that have fawns with them so the fawns have a fighting chance of surviving their first winter.

 

[willfrye027]

This topic always seems to come up around this time of year.

If you are not able to find/kill deer that meet your standard, you should

1) apply instead for highly limited tags

Or

2) get better at hunting


The answer is not some magical management/law/tag allocation nonsense. Guarantee there are guys hunting the same units as you, killing great bucks year after year..

 

[CorbLand]

This topic always seems to come up around this time of year.

If you are not able to find/kill deer that meet your standard, you should

1) apply instead for highly limited tags

Or

2) get better at hunting


The answer is not some magical management/law/tag allocation nonsense. Guarantee there are guys hunting the same units as you, killing great bucks year after year..

Or

3) Accept the fact that what you want/are looking for is going to be difficult to find and that you may go years without finding/killing it.

 

[willfrye027]

Or

3) Accept the fact that what you want/are looking for is going to be difficult to find and that you may go years without finding/killing it.

This.

 

[Hnthrdr]

This topic always seems to come up around this time of year.

If you are not able to find/kill deer that meet your standard, you should

1) apply instead for highly limited tags

Or

2) get better at hunting


The answer is not some magical management/law/tag allocation nonsense. Guarantee there are guys hunting the same units as you, killing great bucks year after year..

Completely agree.

 

[DenimChicken]

So they ruin it for the residents.

Take the Eastern states and send 20,000 hunters to their state to shoot all their yearling whitetails and see how much they appreciate it.

I hate it.

I have been a resident of and hunted in numerous western states, and I will always side with priority going to residents. I don't know if what I'm talking about is ruining if for the residents, or even a non resident vs resident hunter issue. It's how I believe the majority of people hunt. A nice deer this year is better than a potential trophy next year.

I am not letting a nice buck pass because he just might make it through the winter and not get killed by another hunter, or eaten by wolves or a lion. I am also personally not looking for a trophy, but a nice representation of the species. I believe the vast majority of resident hunters feel the same way, and it's how I also hunt my current resident state.

 

[mt terry d]

I would like everybody else to let them grow a few years, especially the ones close to the road. When it’s my turn I want to see lots of big bucks, preferably next to the road. Is that too much to ask?

Dibs on the ones on the uphill side.

 

[Jethro]

So they ruin it for the residents.

Take the Eastern states and send 20,000 hunters to their state to shoot all their yearling whitetails and see how much they appreciate it.

I hate it.

20,000. That’s funny

 

[idelkslayer]

Not to mention that the majority of bucks will never reach "trophy" size no matter how long you let them grow. That's one of the things that makes large bucks so special, they are rare under any circumstance. This isn't sheep hunting where we can age an animal on the hoof and know if we're looking at 6 yr old full curl vs an 8 yr old full curl.

There are many units throughout the west with very restrictive tag allocations that still don't have giant bucks behind every tree. I see the posts in the forum every year. "Unit X isn't what it uses to be ...", "I hunted 10 days and never saw a buck over 140 inches, not what I expected for hunt with 2% draw odds" Presumably these are hunts where most people are "letting them grow" and big bucks are still hard to find.

Go back and listen to this:

Antler size vs Age in Bucks & Bulls

Robby host's Kevin Monteith. They are busting up the myths surrounding age of buck or bull vs. antler size. This episode will surprise more than a few hunters.

www.rokslide.com

On another rokcast I think it was the Utah biologist that mentioned that they age all their bucks and have killed many older age class bucks that did not get very big.

Here is another example (whitetail) but based on the sources above I would bet mule deer are similar. Look at the difference between the 9.5 yr old buck and the 3.5 year old buck. If you saw the two side by side would you pass on the 9.5 yr old deer to let him grow? What about the 3.5 yr old deer that actually has time and room to grow, would you pass on him? Back to the sheep example, would you pass on a legal full curl 6 yr old ram because you knew he was young and has time to grow into something truly special?

Clearwater wildlife blog series: Installment #3- White-tailed deer teeth results

Now that year 1 of the north-Idaho deer aging study results are back from the lab, we were able to analyze some of the results and provide a short summary for you to enjoy! Take a peek at this write-up & video!

idfg.idaho.gov

As far back as we have kept harvest records, young deer, forkies and 3-pts have made up the majority of the harvest. I think we have idolized big deer too much and as a result we have to make excuses for why we don't kill a 180 buck every year. It's easier to blame others shooting forkies than it is to find big deer.

 

[DenimChicken]

On another rokcast I think it was the Utah biologist that mentioned that they age all their bucks and have killed many older age class bucks that did not get very big.

Genetics can be crazy. I occasionally hunt an area for blacktail where the majority are 2x2's. They can be old, big bodied deer with big bases and a lot of them never get more than 2 points on each side. A few miles away 4x4's are the norm.

 

[maxp]

Genetics are king...here in alberta I hunt an area that has had some great 4x4 genetics. That brought in more hunters who shot the good looking bucks which most of us would do but it left a few 3x3 bucks. Now those genetics have become dominant and we are seeing lots of bucks grow old but never get shot cause they're only a 3x3.

 

[AHayes111]

This topic always seems to come up around this time of year.

If you are not able to find/kill deer that meet your standard, you should

1) apply instead for highly limited tags

Or

2) get better at hunting


The answer is not some magical management/law/tag allocation nonsense. Guarantee there are guys hunting the same units as you, killing great bucks year after year..

I have confidence that this is not happening in SE MT. Guess it depends on what a person considers a great buck.