Lessons Learned: Complete Arrow Failure on Elk

[dreamingWest]

Do you think your shot on the first elk was far enough forward to be a brisket shot? They will bleed like crazy from a sharp broadhead through the brisket, but likely survive.

Your bow and arrow set-up seems good to me. Not crazy heavy like some guys are shooting now, but good enough to kill bulls if you open their chest cavity.

 

[OR Archer]

Arrow is fine. What you’re failing to factor in is that you made a poor first shot. Then on the second shot you were shooting at a very alert elk. Alert elk can move fast. An arrow striking a big moving object like an elk can and will do strange things.

 

[5MilesBack]

Just some observations.......you don't "need" very expensive specialty arrows to successfully kill elk. However, I would consider 7.9 gpi arrow shafts really light.......i.e. fragile.....at least IMO. Did you do any durability testing with these arrows prior to your hunt? I always test my arrows and BH's shooting through 3/4" plywood straight on and angled, as well as into 2x6's. I figure if they can't handle at least that then I don't want to be shooting an elk with one. This is where my reluctance to use collars comes in. I've never had an issue with my elk arrows on elk after this testing, so I don't use the collars.

However, once the arrow is inside an animal all kinds of things can happen. Last year I shot a moose with a mechanical head after a passthrough with my first arrow (125gr Exodus). The 2nd arrow buried to the fletching through the ribs right above his front leg broadside. When I skinned him down from the backbone, that second arrow (minus the BH) was pushing up on the hide BEHIND his last rib up near the spine. It either snapped the BH off and moved that arrow taking a couple steps, or it happened when he fell. Stuff happens inside the animal.

Every equipment decision in archery is a tradeoff of some sort. Plenty of elk killed with arrows lighter than yours, and maybe just as fragile. But you have to hit them right. It's like someone shooting a 40lb compound......their arrows will kill, they just have to make realistic decisions and can't afford to hit anywhere other than straight through the lungs at close range.

 

[Skerhunter]

Yeah, I’ve killed 5 bucks and a cow elk with a bow. I’ve hunted since I was old enough and have taken probably close to 30 big game animals. In that time I have lost 3 of them. Including this bull. We are used to hitting bone and having deflection or it stopping the arrow. Setups exist that make this far less likely. I guess my biggest point is Ashby would consider this an arrow failure and he’s not necessarily wrong.

I doubt ashby would blame the arrow on a liver/single lung hit or a muscle hit (they can bleed a lot too).

Your current arrow set up is perfectly fine, it will kill an elk or deer when properly placed. Smashing through heavy bone doesn't do you any good if you aren't getting both lungs or heart or arteries.

Build a heavier arrow if it will give you more confidence! Confidence in your equipment is important and building heavier arrows is easy.

Keep hunting and keep learning!

 

[PLhunter]

Also just wanted to mention my anecdotal experience with the boutique setups isn’t limited to the femur shot. Last year my buddy put one through both knuckles of a cow killing her right in her bed. Another buddy had a clean pass through at 30 that stuck into a tree on the other side. He hit a rib.

For me the deflection and lack of pass through on shot 2 is a complete arrow fail. Shot one is harder to say without information but without a doubt shot 2 shows there is massive room for improvement. I’m not going to accept a setup that pings off a rib like that. Even if it meets paper requirements.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

just my opinion but shot #2 should never have happened unless you were 1000% percent sure it was the same bull. Blood drawn should equal a tag punched whether the animal was recovered or not !

 

[wildwilderness]

Elk can be incredibly tough. Stuff happens. Congrats on killing a bull even though it didn’t work out as planned.

 

[bsnedeker]

Wow, just wow. While I'm not in the camp of "wounded animal should punch tag" crowd, I am in the camp of "do everything you can to recover an animal that you've shot". You did not do that. You were actively tracking your first bull when you had an opportunity to shoot another and you took the easy way out.

Shameful.

 

[PLhunter]

just my opinion but shot #2 should never have happened unless you were 1000% percent sure it was the same bull. Blood drawn should equal a tag punched whether the animal was recovered or not !

Perfectly valid opinion. Split second decision that I made. Could have watched the bull from shot 1 run off with an arrow in it and passed on a chance to put it down or like what happened shoot a second bull. We did consider our second tag filled and got out quick as possible.

 

[TSAMP]

I'm in the minority but that seems like a light arrow to me.

 

[MattB]

A buddy used those same arrows chasing the magical FOC and had a similar experience as you did (thin walled shaft broke on impact, severely reducing penetration). This is yet another reminder that people should focus on Ashby's #1 rule (structural integrity of the arrow) which is paramount and de-emphasize the "nice to have" things further down the list like FOC.

 

[PLhunter]

A buddy used those same arrows chasing the magical FOC and had a similar experience as you did (thin walled shaft broke on impact, severely reducing penetration). This is yet another reminder that people should focus on Ashby's #1 rule (structural integrity of the arrow) which is paramount and de-emphasize the "nice to have" things further down the list like FOC.

Yeah, this was also our early attempt at getting FOC. We discussed the list ad nauseam on the way home and it rings so true. I stuck with these arrows because it shot so well in my bow and had taken a buck fine. My buddies adapted and have had great success with much “worse” shots. They gave me shit for not switching and I’m getting plenty of shit here for not making a perfect shot (though the second was pretty close). Thanks for sharing your friends experience.

I understand people’s frustration with taking the second shot but I really wish they could see the amount of skill and work it took to get as far into the blood trail as I did. No way to do that on a forum though. Think they are missing that I was over an hour into tracking that morning with no blood at all by the time this happened. Also, id love to see them pick up on the random direction changes off even a faint game trail using only small inconsistent smears under low branches and maybe a pinprick of blood every 30 yards. I had to freaking taste the marks on rocks and branches to distinguish them from other small marks and imperfections on the rocks and twigs.
multiple times I said I’ve got blood my buddy said “no f@ckin way”. Three times he cut back on his own track anyone whose had a tough tracking job in a tough tracking environment knows how hard that makes it. Not to mention it’s steep enough the clearing are all avalanche chutes. Anyway I digress I’d be judging if I was them anyway. So it is what it is.

 

[Greenmachine_1]

Just cause I want to see this keep going.

#1. Without video, it'd be really hard to make a guess as to what happened on either shot, but just knowing how quickly animals can move when they know you are there, I'd guess there was some attempt to move out of the way and less chance of a deflection, unless you are confident that you hit something.

#2. You'll probably be changing arrows this year since you just lost confidence in your setup. Without knowing DL, I'd guess you can add some weight to the arrow shaft and still get good trajectory. I would guess somewhere around 480 grains 175 up front with a 300 spine arrow that is more durable.

#3. Don't confuse rules with ethics. You tracked bull 1 for most of the day. It would be up to the state to decide if you made a reasonable effort to recover the bull. Ethically, it's your choice to make a decision to hunt by rules which go beyond the state regulations or even to the regulations, technically.

#4. Congrats on the bull.

Just my thoughts.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Wrench]

Arrows break from hard hits, nock not being behind the broadhead and animals moving.

One of those is your culprit.

Light arrows and non COC heads reduce your windows for error....although at 20 it should be a non-issue.

Sounds like you had the perfect storm of potentials working against you.

I snapped off in a humerus last year on a bull with the most famous broadhead for busting through bone....just hit hard and was the end of the trip for my arrow.....which weighed 550gr.

 

[Zac]

just my opinion but shot #2 should never have happened unless you were 1000% percent sure it was the same bull. Blood drawn should equal a tag punched whether the animal was recovered or not !

IMO this is a personal choice. The game and fish commissions do take wounding into consideration when issuing tags. What happened here was not a blatant law violation, rather than a very difficult choice.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

IMO this is a personal choice. The game and fish commissions do take wounding into consideration when issuing tags. What happened here was not a blatant law violation, rather than a very difficult choice.

I didn't say nor was I trying to imply that he broke the law, I just gave my personal opinion. Sounds like the OP went above & beyond to track bull #1.

 

[Beendare]

Delete
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[bsnedeker]

IMO this is a personal choice. The game and fish commissions do take wounding into consideration when issuing tags. What happened here was not a blatant law violation, rather than a very difficult choice.

I agree with the G&F comment 100%! They take wound-loss into account when setting quotas so I have no problem with a guy who loses an animal making the decision to keep hunting.

My problem in this situation is that is not what happened. OP did NOT make a decision to keep hunting after he determined that the animal was not going to be recovered. OP was actively trying to recover an animal he hit and another animal popped out and his thought was "Hey, maybe that's the same bull, better shoot it just to be sure!!!"

I don't care how hard he worked tracking the bull up to that point. I don't care that he and his buddy had two tags (unless this is a party hunting state for elk, which I highly doubt). In my opinion this is demonstrating horrible ethics in a hunting situation.

 

[Greenmachine_1]

I agree with the G&F comment 100%! They take wound-loss into account when setting quotas so I have no problem with a guy who loses an animal making the decision to keep hunting.

My problem in this situation is that is not what happened. OP did NOT make a decision to keep hunting after he determined that the animal was not going to be recovered. OP was actively trying to recover an animal he hit and another animal popped out and his thought was "Hey, maybe that's the same bull, better shoot it just to be sure!!!"

I don't care how hard he worked tracking the bull up to that point. I don't care that he and his buddy had two tags (unless this is a party hunting state for elk, which I highly doubt). In my opinion this is demonstrating horrible ethics in a hunting situation.

Isn't the most efficient method of verification the ground check?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Zac]

I agree with the G&F comment 100%! They take wound-loss into account when setting quotas so I have no problem with a guy who loses an animal making the decision to keep hunting.

My problem in this situation is that is not what happened. OP did NOT make a decision to keep hunting after he determined that the animal was not going to be recovered. OP was actively trying to recover an animal he hit and another animal popped out and his thought was "Hey, maybe that's the same bull, better shoot it just to be sure!!!"

I don't care how hard he worked tracking the bull up to that point. I don't care that he and his buddy had two tags (unless this is a party hunting state for elk, which I highly doubt). In my opinion this is demonstrating horrible ethics in a hunting situation.

Horrible ethics huh? You must be a mind reader as well. You have no idea what was going through the OP's mind at the time. He was in a very stressful situation, it is not right for you or anyone else to impose your ethics upon another hunter. It's very easy for a bunch of arm chair warriors to sit behind their keyboards and state what they would have done in that situation. The OP had a split second chance to make a decision. He didn't have time to ponder how the Rokslide Jury would judge him.