Learn from my trespassing mistake in Idaho!!!!!

[Idaboy]

It is what it is.

The Idaho legislators do nothing logical or practical

 

[TandKHunting]

As a former cop....you are right. The only words out of your mouth should be "I want a lawyer". Full stop. There is a defense lawyer I watch on Youtube that calls it, "self snitching".

Good on you for posting your experience on here and taking some responsibility though. 99% of folks wouldn't do that, so don't get too down if you get drug through the mud a bit.

You would be surprised how many people break laws and don't even know they were breaking a law.

My problem is when people in the hunting community with influence break laws and downplay it, deflect or think they don't owe accountability to the thousands of people (many youngsters) that follow them.

Anyways, that is all.

 

[WeiserBucks]

As a former cop....you are right. The only words out of your mouth should be "I want a lawyer". Full stop.

In your experience, what actually happens when people say "I want a lawyer"? Do you get one to come out to BFE immediately? Stop questioning them? Arrest em and meet the lawyer at the jail?

 

[TandKHunting]

In your experience, what actually happens when people say "I want a lawyer"? Do you get one to come out to BFE immediately? Stop questioning them? Arrest em and meet the lawyer at the jail?

It's all based on probable cause. If an officer has probable cause to make an arrest, they won't care if you lawyer up. You can stay silent all the way to jail. You are not entitled to a lawyer at any point during the arrest phase, and a lawyer wouldn't do anything for you at that point regardless. You are simply exercising your right to remain silent and avoid further incriminating yourself in a court of law.

If an officer doesn't have probable cause but has reasonable suspicion they will want you to talk in order to establish probable cause for an arrest. "So, tell me what happened today". Many people self snitch at this point. They think talking will further prove their innocence, but many times they incriminate themselves and provide probable cause for an officer to make an arrest. Reasonable suspicion is before probable cause. It's what gives police the authority to temporarily detain you, but they can't arrest you on reasonable suspicion alone.

As far as this entire issue, the officers may have had probable cause regardless if the OP opened his mouth or not. Or they may have been acting on reasonable suspicion and the OP said self incriminating things to provide probable cause. Hard to know without reading the police report.

 

[Tod osier]

Feel free to post the "you are a dumbass" comments here but hopefully I can save some other new hunter some stress.

I got my first bull elk in I Idaho last fall on state land. I came up through public land early in the dark and waited for daylight. I got my bull first thing in the morning and got it tagged and bagged very early. I spent the next several hours moving the game bags around to keep them cool while waiting on the other hunters in the group to call it a day. I had the proper tag, weapon and location. As the day progressed I started feeling the need to expedite getting the elk to the processor. See where I am going with this?

A very thin strip of land along the highway below us had been private Potlatch Latch land for decades and the gates were open and the public routinely used the road to access public lands above it. This land is now owned by the billionaire Wilks Brothers and was on OnX. I rode down an unmarked road on my bicycle and the gate at the very bottom was now closed and locked. It was marked private on the opposite side and visible only when on the other side. I should have turned around and rode back up. The gate was about 100 yards from the highway so I tossed my bike over the gate and rode out to the highway. I was on that land for about 90 seconds. Unfortunately for me Idaho Fish and Game drove by as I was getting the elk loaded into a truck to get it to the processor. At this point I still had no clue of the gravity of the situation!! I felt no cause for concern and with a smile went to meet the officer to provide my ID and documents. At that point in my 58 years I had never even had a parking ticket and was new to hunting.

I got a ticket for trespass to hunt and thanks to the Wilks brothers Idaho trespassing laws became a VERY BIG DEAL in 2018. There have been attempts in the legislature to not allow people to buy very small parcels of land to block access to thousands but thus far the billionaire lobbyist have blocked it. The ticketing officer told me I better get an attorney. What?? I rode my bike across a dirt road where there were no people, structures, or farmland and I did not damage anything.

Fast forward 4 months and the best offer from the county prosecutor was loss of my elk, $1500 fine, loss of nationwide hunting privileges for a year, 90 day suspended jail sentence, 40 hours of community service and 1 year of probation. One would think I cut a lock, shot my elk on private land and rolled around in the dirt with the officer. My friends were hunting the same area the day after I got my ticket and the officer was there confirming where my elk carcass was. It was of course exactly where I told him it was. The charges were strictly for being on private land. If I heard this story I would say someone is full of $hit because something is missing here. It is not. I worked side by side with law enforcement for my career and I definitely passed the attitude test and left nothing but bicycle tracks on private land.

I intended to go to a Jury trial based on the charges and it wasn't until the last hearing the prosecutor dropped the suspended jail time and probation. Fortunately the judge was a decent person and advised me, after I pled guilty, of an Idaho law that will show this case as dismissed in one year and will not show up anywhere.

I think the officer had an ax to grind with one of the people in our camp and I got caught up in it.

IMPORTANT LESSONS

1. Know where you are in Idaho and stay off of private land. It is the hunters responsibility to know.

2. SHUT THE **** UP!! The officer did not see anything and had no proof. I was just a naive dumbass. I have friends that are cops and judges and they have always said never say anything. He kept me there for over an hour questioning me a building a case. At one point I said "can I just go to town and plead guilty and pay my fine?" At that point I thought I was dealing with something like a parking ticket. Guess what video clip he submitted without context? If I could do it again I would have provided my documentation politely said nothing else. I will never share seemingly harmless information again.

Okay there is my humiliating story. Hopefully someone learns from this and turns around when onX tells them to and remember STFU! I cant imagine how terrible it would have been if I had damaged private property or shot my elk on private land!

Sorry to hear about this situation, thanks for sharing it.

One thing that kills me is the dynamic between game law enforcement and the STFU angle. I've seen dozens of press releases and articles in state wildlife mags where law enforcement pleads with sportsman to self report mistakes with the promise of leniency, but in this case it was obviously your undoing. When they walk the walk of being your buddy in person (and officially with those press releases) and then hammer you for cooperating, that sucks. I think there is a fair number of cases where STFU will escalate things.

 

[RockAndSage]

Sorry to hear about this situation, thanks for sharing it.

One thing that kills me is the dynamic between game law enforcement and the STFU angle. I've seen dozens of press releases and articles in state wildlife mags where law enforcement pleads with sportsman to self report mistakes with the promise of leniency, but in this case it was obviously your undoing. When they walk the walk of being your buddy in person (and officially with those press releases) and then hammer you for cooperating, that sucks. I think there is a fair number of cases where STFU will escalate things.

How you STFU matters. Do it in a friendly and respectful manner, like you're declining coffee.

 

[WalterH]

Major bummer on the elk. Seeing as how it wasn't taken on private land there was no basis for it to be forfeited whatsoever. It was separate and unrelated to the offense in question. Overall it doesn't seem like the punishment fit the crime at all.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Major bummer on the elk. Seeing as how it wasn't taken on private land there was no basis for it to be forfeited whatsoever. It was separate and unrelated to the offense in question. Overall it doesn't seem like the punishment fit the crime at all.

It was part of a plea bargain that OP agreed to, the state didn't force him to forfeit the critter.

 

[Tod osier]

How you STFU matters. Do it in a friendly and respectful manner, like you're declining coffee.

I hear you, but there is that line there that they are trying to walk. The STFU needs to happen somewhere between "Nice day, isn't it?" and "did you know you were trespassing?". I've interacted with a lot of wardens over the years and it is a real mix as far as their attitude. I always try to be polite, but to not drag things out.

 

[WalterH]

It was part of a plea bargain that OP agreed to, the state didn't force him to forfeit the critter.

I realize that. Seems like an unreasonable element of the agreement and one that he could have succeeded in challenging or getting dropped.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I realize that. Seems like an unreasonable element of the agreement and one that he could have succeeded in challenging or getting dropped.

He also could have been given a jail sentence. Not many people would actually serve jail time if given a choice, that's why plea bargains are so prevalent/effective for the prosecutor.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Never treat any lEO like they are your friend, they are not, and say nothing. Never offer any information even if asked. If they ask why do you think I am questioning you all you ever say is have no idea at all. I had an issue years back, I knew to not talk to the officer until I knew what it was he was getting to. After he kept asking question I would not answer, I said am I under arrest, even if I am not I'll talk only to my lawyer. He asked why I would need a lawyer, I said because you are trying to twist anything I say to make it look like I did something wrong. I called my lawyer while he was standing there. End of conversation.

 

[KHNC]

Almost like they want to motivate people to pack out their animals the way the came in. Instead of dropping down through somebody's property?

Almost like they want to misinterpret the regulations as they were voted on.

 

[Fatcamp]

It's possible to support law enforcement AND know that they are not your friends.

If they are asking questions that is an investigation. Act accordingly.

 

[KHNC]

Damn man, I am so sorry to read this. So easy to see good people I know, including myself, having made the same mistakes. Appreciate the post.

Steve made sure to point out that it wasn't a "mistake".

 

[SuperDUECE22]

I'm not a Billionaire but I am a landowner, and I get why some people see landowners as rich jerks, but for me, it’s about protecting what’s mine. You give people a inch these days and they take a mile.
Private property rights are important because they make sure everyone plays by the rules. And hey, if someone trespasses and faces the consequences, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it—that’s on them.

Kudos to the OP for sharing his story though!

 

[NevadaMike]

The DA offer seems disproportionally insane in relation to the crime.

Were you using a lawyer to handle the plea deal?

I was using a lawyer and got a second opinion. It came down to how much money did I want to spend and how much stress.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Steve made sure to point out that it wasn't a "mistake".

The OP pointed that out as well..

 

[KHNC]

The OP pointed that out as well..

I was just clearing up for that other guy , so you wouldnt have to.

 

[NevadaMike]

Where did he state he took his elk on "private property"?
What about what he did should cause him to lose his elk , once it was confirmed where the carcass was?
Crossing public to private should be the only infraction here, along with the penalties that go with it. Which, per the regs, do not include seizure of his legally taken elk.

I have a friend that is a retired Federal judge in Idaho and now oversees ethics complaints against judges in Idaho. I called after everything was over and he said it probably should have been an "infraction."