Learn from my trespassing mistake in Idaho!!!!!

[Spence1875]

I was a Federal LEO for 24 years. Loose lips sink ships is the best motto for this situation. Be respectful and answer identifying questions, meaning who you are, etc.. that’s it.

Game wardens especially give no breaks, even to fellow Leo’s.

Long story but my buddy and I had just helped run the firearms/tactical portion of a week long in service for state and federal game wardens in our area. Following month or so we were duck hunting at our place. State game warden we didn’t know, knew us from the land owner and that we were Leo’s, when we talked he also said he heard about how great the training was we gave as some of his friends had attended our portion of it. After all that, He wrote my buddy a ticket for not having his hip number written on license. My buddy had filled out the survey when he bought his license but just forgot it. Pre smart phone days. Was pain at work for him as it counted as a law enforcement contact and had to report to command staff.

I tell my kids the same thing, keep your mouth shut and don’t consent to any searches etc…

 

[flathead#2]

IMO, waaaay outside the spirit of the law.
OP didnt kill on the private.
Sensible thing would have been a warning.
I think it had to do more with the landowner and the
conservation officer setting an example to not even
come NEAR that private land - even on public.

 

[goathunter]

Geeze unfortunate situation. And what does Idaho do with real poachers, who don't trespass? Slap on the wrist?

 

[WeiserBucks]

Geeze unfortunate situation. And what does Idaho do with real poachers, who don't trespass? Slap on the wrist?

Yes, for the most part.

 

[waspocrew]

Wow, crazy ordeal - punishment seemed a bit stiff, but a good reminder to know regulations and boundaries.

 

[Customweld]

It’s not outside the norm for leo’s to side gig as Wilks property goons.

 

[goathunter]

It’s not outside the norm for leo’s to side gig as Wilks property goons.

Getting some major Roadhouse vibes. But I don't doubt it for a minute

 

[Spoonbill]

Wow, crazy ordeal - punishment seemed a bit stiff, but a good reminder to know regulations and boundaries.

A lot of fish and game crimes have minimum fines and license suspensions, this guy likely got the miminum sentence the judge could give him and he got a withheld judgment, so no new crimes at the end of probation means he was never convicted (technically)

 

[TxxAgg]

Thanks for sharing. Seems like a case of Letter of the law vs. Spirit of the law

 

[WeiserBucks]

A lot of fish and game crimes have minimum fines and license suspensions, this guy likely got the miminum sentence the judge could give him and he got a withheld judgment, so no new crimes at the end of probation means he was never convicted (technically)

The unseen consequences come with a license suspension and state reciprocity. IE you had 56 combined preference points in various states? Poof, gone.

 

[dusky]

Man. I know that the law is the law but f............. That feels like such an extreme punishment. Thank you for the warning. There is a spot near me similar to what you describe that I've been profoundly bothered by. In order to the patch of public land, I have to hike 2 miles through thick, steep terrain even though there the public land comes to within 30 YARDS from the road. OnX shows a trail supposedly managed by the NFS running through that parcel to the road, so I figured it was legal. NOPE. No easement, apparently. Doesn't matter if it is an NFS trail on OnX. I was ticketed. But, I didn't have an animal. If I had, I bet I'd have gotten what you got. I'm in Colorado. Holy shnikies. The officer even seemed to feel bad, writing the ticket, but he said, "The property owners are significant contributors to conservation in the area." I heard that as him feeling threatened/swayed by their money or potential lawfare nature (like the Wilks, perhaps?). But I was thinking, "Don't my hundred of dollars of license fees and thousands of dollars towards the hunting and local economies mean just as much?" Not wanting to steal from your story here. Just want to empathize with your pain and the ridiculous people out there who seem eager to flaunt their power without discretion. That said, I'm none to eager to take any chances again.

 

[Wrench]

Pretty sure if I was involved in a case that put me on the opposite side of the Wilkes brothers., I'd opt for a jury.

 

[wildwilderness]

Fast forward 4 months and the best offer from the county prosecutor was loss of my elk, $1500 fine, loss of nationwide hunting privileges for a year, 90 day suspended jail sentence, 40 hours of community service and 1 year of

FYI not every state is in the Wildlife Violator Compact (Hawaii is a good one to go hunt!)
Also Indian Reservations are not in the Compact either (AZ Res have some good hunting options) and of course international is wide open (South Africa is very affordable) So don’t give up hunting for a year just because!

(Sometimes NO hunting anywhere is part of a sentence and enforced through probation. That doesn’t seem like the case here)




I had a friend and co worker get in similar trouble about 15yrs ago in Colorado. the worst part was they claimed his elk was killed ON private (he didn’t have a gps on him) and the LEO would t show him his gps) They did trespass taking the elk out though and that was when they got caught.

I went back with him later and on my gps he was 10 yds on PUBLIC. Unfortunately he couldn’t prove that after the fact… He was charged with much worse. His final plea iirc was suspended jail, $5,000 fine and loss of hunting privileges 3 years

(His lawyer fees were over $5k as well but did get his charges substantially reduced- original was $15,000 fine, confiscation of SxS, 90 days jail, 5 year hunting suspension etc)

 

[TaperPin]

How about that.

I’m curious what the friend did prior to all this that the game warden might not have liked.

I feel bad we didn’t repeat it enough to not bend rules and expect sympathy from game wardens.

The advice to demand a lawyer as the first words out the mouth made me spit out my Coke. What is wrong with people when they are incapable of having the simplest interaction with any kind of law enforcement. Is that the advice you give teenagers if they are ever pulled over? Don’t do questionable things, know where private land is, act like a grown up and bad things won’t happen to you.

 

[Erict]

FYI not every state is in the Wildlife Violator Compact (Hawaii is a good one to go hunt!)

Every state is now a member of the Compact. Hawaii joined in 2021 and Massachusetts was the final state to join in 2022.

 

[Customweld]

Pretty sure if I was involved in a case that put me on the opposite side of the Wilkes brothers., I'd opt for a jury.

I think I’d go that route too. They aren’t well received in any of the counties in Idaho that they have property in.

 

[TandKHunting]

How about that.

I’m curious what the friend did prior to all this that the game warden might not have liked.

I feel bad we didn’t repeat it enough to not bend rules and expect sympathy from game wardens.

The advice to demand a lawyer as the first words out the mouth made me spit out my Coke. What is wrong with people when they are incapable of having the simplest interaction with any kind of law enforcement. Is that the advice you give teenagers if they are ever pulled over? Don’t do questionable things, know where private land is, act like a grown up and bad things won’t happen to you.

The advice I gave was pertaining to questioning when you are being investigated for criminal charges. That's the situation. I don't remember this post talking about being pulled over for speeding and what you should tell an officer when he asks for your license, registration, and insurance.

Nobody here is telling people to act like a sovereign citizen. As a former cop, I'm certainly pro police and still have tons of friends in both local and federal agencies. It's okay to be friendly and have a conversation with police. Common sense. Again, that's not the topic of discussion.

The OP clearly felt like talking to LEO incriminated him further, which it probably did. They were conducting an investigation. This wasn't an encounter of checking a license and being on their way.

It appears we have other fellow LEO's in this thread. All of us are saying the same thing.

It's important for people to understand their rights when being investigated for a crime. It's in the amendments.

So I will double down. If you are being questioned in an investigation where you may be in the wrong....ask for a lawyer and stop answering. Or don't. I don't really care. I'm just trying to help all of you out.

 

[Silveroddo]

I got pulled over for speeding one night on my way home from a gig at a local bistro. The cop, like any good cop, asked if I’d been drinking. I said I’d had one glass of wine with dinner two hours ago which was God’s truth. “Step out of the cars sir… do these stupid human tricks. Oh and here’s your speeding ticket.” I don’t resent any of it and I learned a lot from it.

I think a good reply would have been “With all due respect officer Johnson, you have reasonable suspicion that I’ve been speeding, but I insist on not answering any questions related to any other activities. It’s just a matter of principle regarding my 4th amendment rights”. OTOH maybe that would piss him off?

Edit: I thought about including fifth amendment rights, but then I remembered some thing I heard in a podcast the other day about the fifth amendment And Miranda rights. Basically you don’t have any fifth amendment rights until they hook you up if I understand correctly.

"Officer, I Don't drink, I'm headed home after sober cabbing for my friends"
Usually surprises them enough they lose all steam and let you off right then and there.

 

[displacedtexan]

View attachment 864958

It's clearly stated in the regulations, I don't understand why people don't take the time to actually read the regs. Regs and property boundaries change but people just do the same thing every year and disregard the regulations.

Side note, Wilks can pound sand along with their cousin Rep. Boyle.

Elk wasn't taken on private.

 

[displacedtexan]

@NevadaMike - thanks for sharing. May have been difficult to put this out there but a good reminder and maybe others can learn from your experience.

One of your lessons was "SHUT THE **** UP!!"
That raises a question: how much is the right amount of information to share?

• If someone talks too much information, they run the risk of self-incrimination, as you did. Trying to be cooperative, open-and-honest can come with unintended consequences.
• If someone refuses to talk, the LEO will view this as being uncooperative, and acting suspicious. In those situations, the LEO may view this as the person has something to hide, so they will dig even further to see what is going on. G&F / F&G / DNR officers have different rights above and beyond those provided to most other branches of law enforcement. If/when they find something, they will then "throw the book at you" with a litany of charges.
  • In your case, how this could have been portrayed by LEO was "Suspect was evasive and cooperative. Suspect lied to LEO, stating he was merely going for a bike ride. Suspect had in fact harvested a bull elk earlier in the day and hid the animal in his vehicle. Suspect refused to answer questions about his whereabouts. Tire tracks indicate suspect had committed trespass across private land."

Any comments on the above, based on your experience?

Several years ago I spilled a little whiskey on myself loading hunting gear into my buddy's (driving) truck.

He got pulled over, asked if anyone had been drinking. He said I had, that's why he was driving.

Wasted over an hour on sobriety tests because we let the sober guy drive.

Talking to the cops is as bad as not talking to the cops.