Latest on corner crossing

[wind gypsy]

Am I the only one wondering if it's a normal thing for an entity to decide to "join a suit" on the side of a defendant?

Perhaps this is beneficial to anyone who wants to corner cross but it just feels like a BHA publicity grab. Why didn't they offer to pony up for legal fees right away instead of letting a chapter collect $ from working stiffs?

 

[wind gypsy]

This whole corner crossing deal pisses me off! I’ve always been one to try and look at both sides, and I understand and respect ranchers have a right to protect their property. But in this case and many others like it, they are doing nothing but trying deny the public, access to public land, period! Why are they doing this?? Because for many many years, before Onx and other similar apps, they could post it as private and keep people out so that they could hunt and guide other hunters on prime public land.

I’ll admit, I crossed a corner this year on a Barbary sheep hunt for my son. At this corner there were absolutely no fences! Zero fences! And no indication that their had ever been a fence here, EVER! The landowner had taken five t-posts and put them where the fence corner would be if there were fences there. He then took four 25’ joints of sucker rod and wired them to the t-posts to make a corner of a non-existing fence. I’d guess it was probably 5-1/2’, maybe 6’ tall which made it very difficult and dangerous to climb over. We had hiked about 2 miles across public land to get to this corner and I wasn’t going to hike back out and let the landowner win.

I’d like to know if his “corner” was even in the correct spot. Did the landowner have it surveyed just for this reason, or did he just guess or go off of where Onx said the corner was? Idk for sure, but that would’ve been my first question had he confronted us. We went in and hunted and came back out without any problems, but it sucks having that BS in the back of your mind while you’re trying to enjoy a hunt with your 14 yr old son.

It would be nice to finally have some clarity on this.

Sounds like there was likely a legit case for trespassing against you.

This is an example of a reason for landowners to oppose corner crossing - people passing through in the general vincinity of a corner and thinking it's good enough without knowing where the actual corner was.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

This whole corner crossing deal pisses me off! I’ve always been one to try and look at both sides, and I understand and respect ranchers have a right to protect their property. But in this case and many others like it, they are doing nothing but trying deny the public, access to public land, period! Why are they doing this?? Because for many many years, before Onx and other similar apps, they could post it as private and keep people out so that they could hunt and guide other hunters on prime public land.

I’ll admit, I crossed a corner this year on a Barbary sheep hunt for my son. At this corner there were absolutely no fences! Zero fences! And no indication that their had ever been a fence here, EVER! The landowner had taken five t-posts and put them where the fence corner would be if there were fences there. He then took four 25’ joints of sucker rod and wired them to the t-posts to make a corner of a non-existing fence. I’d guess it was probably 5-1/2’, maybe 6’ tall which made it very difficult and dangerous to climb over. We had hiked about 2 miles across public land to get to this corner and I wasn’t going to hike back out and let the landowner win.

I’d like to know if his “corner” was even in the correct spot. Did the landowner have it surveyed just for this reason, or did he just guess or go off of where Onx said the corner was? Idk for sure, but that would’ve been my first question had he confronted us. We went in and hunted and came back out without any problems, but it sucks having that BS in the back of your mind while you’re trying to enjoy a hunt with your 14 yr old son.

It would be nice to finally have some clarity on this.

That's pretty crappy of them to do that.

 

[NMframed]

Sounds like there was likely a legit case for trespassing against you.

This is an example of a reason for landowners to oppose corner crossing - people passing through in the general vincinity of a corner and thinking it's good enough without knowing where the actual corner was.

I crossed where the landowner had made the “corner”. Maybe he did have it surveyed and that’s the reason he put it there, so people would know exactly where to cross. I had never thought about it like that so I appreciate your insight. Had it not been there I would’ve crossed where onx had it marked.
Regardless, I wouldn NOT have purposely trespassed on his land for ANY reason at all. I would’ve crossed the corner as quickly and respectfully as possible to gain access the public land. And I’ll disagree with you about the reason for landowners to oppose corner crossing. It’s not because they are worried about someone crossing 40 ft one way or the other and trespassing. It’s 100% to try and keep people out of that area so that they can continue to use it as there own.

 

[wind gypsy]

I crossed where the landowner had made the “corner”. Maybe he did have it surveyed and that’s the reason he put it there, so people would know exactly where to cross. I had never thought about it like that so I appreciate your insight. Had it not been there I would’ve crossed where onx had it marked.
Regardless, I wouldn NOT have purposely trespassed on his land for ANY reason at all. I would’ve crossed the corner as quickly and respectfully as possible to gain access the public land. And I’ll disagree with you about the reason for landowners to oppose corner crossing. It’s not because they are worried about someone crossing 40 ft one way or the other and trespassing. It’s 100% to try and keep people out of that area so that they can continue to use it as there own.

We probably agree more than we disagree. Wanting to claim public for themselves is a major or primary motivator for lots of land owners but I don't think we should think it is the only reason. Landowners who might not oppose strict corner crossing could have a legitimate reason to be concerned about people not strictly adhering, damaging their fences, etc.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Easy big fella . I hear they're pushing to build "jump ramps "on corners for ebikes for those without ladders in this case . Everyone should be good .lol

Ok, I’ll take the bait…

Maybe I’ll rethink my position on e-bikes. Then again, my 800cc “dirt bike” could jump even farther and as far as I’m concerned it should be treated the same. A motor is a motor

 

[Zeke6951]

I have said it before, nothing will change the mind of those for or against corner crossing like a change of fortune.
Those that are for CC would mostly be against it if they suddenly inherited 8,000 acres that included a couple of sections of BLM that touched corners.
Those that are against CC would most likely be in favor of it if they suddenly had a financial misfortune and lost all their private land.
Are the landowner greedy because they take advantage of the way the law is now? Most would do the same. Some on here have said if the private landowners don't allow the general public access to Public lands through their private land then they shouldn't be allowed to access it either. The landowners that own the offending corner are also part of the public same as you or I. The difference is they can access it legally the way the law is now and we can't.
I guess I am a little biased, I own about 150 acres in West KY. Nothing to me takes precedence over private property rights. In my opinion, I should have the right to allow anyone on my property and by the same token not allow anyone on my property at my sole discretion. Regardless if harm is meant or done. The person that pays the taxes should have the final say.

 

[Flyjunky]

The person that pays the taxes should have the final say.

We, the citizens, do pay for that public land just the same as the landowner. Do we not have a right to access it? If landowners want to use their “private” access to our public lands and keep us out of it then they can start paying for that land themselves!

 

[String&stick]

I have said it before, nothing will change the mind of those for or against corner crossing like a change of fortune.
Those that are for CC would mostly be against it if they suddenly inherited 8,000 acres that included a couple of sections of BLM that touched corners.
Those that are against CC would most likely be in favor of it if they suddenly had a financial misfortune and lost all their private land.
Are the landowner greedy because they take advantage of the way the law is now? Most would do the same. Some on here have said if the private landowners don't allow the general public access to Public lands through their private land then they shouldn't be allowed to access it either. The landowners that own the offending corner are also part of the public same as you or I. The difference is they can access it legally the way the law is now and we can't.
I guess I am a little biased, I own about 150 acres in West KY. Nothing to me takes precedence over private property rights. In my opinion, I should have the right to allow anyone on my property and by the same token not allow anyone on my property at my sole discretion. Regardless if harm is meant or done. The person that pays the taxes should have the final say.

So what if your land lays behind mine, and I, the tax payer, don't want to let you through my land???

(Ps. We all pay taxes on federal land so we should have final say too!)

 

[Gutshot007]

Man, I'm pretty excited .I just got of the phone with my aunt Liz C . She said with new public access to 2.44 million acres in Wyoming she was gonna talk to some of the state legislators about making all of it a "non-resident only " hunting area to help with some of the tag and overcrowding issues. Who says politicans don't work for you. I take back everything I've said. I just wanna say one thing "You guys are the best!". Not that I wanna start any rumors, but tell your friends

 

[BuzzH]

Am I the only one wondering if it's a normal thing for an entity to decide to "join a suit" on the side of a defendant?

Perhaps this is beneficial to anyone who wants to corner cross but it just feels like a BHA publicity grab. Why didn't they offer to pony up for legal fees right away instead of letting a chapter collect $ from working stiffs?

Yes, its common and just curious why hunters, fishermen, etc. from ONE organization should fund something that, if everything goes right, will benefit 330 million people?

I think this was a great showing of what can happen when those that care about public lands rally, and that to get things done, its not just somebody else's responsibility.

Also, the latest update on the corner crossing case is that Iron Mountain Holdings request to remand back to State court has been DENIED.

Civil case stays in Federal Court.

 

[BuzzH]

I have said it before, nothing will change the mind of those for or against corner crossing like a change of fortune.
Those that are for CC would mostly be against it if they suddenly inherited 8,000 acres that included a couple of sections of BLM that touched corners.
Those that are against CC would most likely be in favor of it if they suddenly had a financial misfortune and lost all their private land.
Are the landowner greedy because they take advantage of the way the law is now? Most would do the same. Some on here have said if the private landowners don't allow the general public access to Public lands through their private land then they shouldn't be allowed to access it either. The landowners that own the offending corner are also part of the public same as you or I. The difference is they can access it legally the way the law is now and we can't.
I guess I am a little biased, I own about 150 acres in West KY. Nothing to me takes precedence over private property rights. In my opinion, I should have the right to allow anyone on my property and by the same token not allow anyone on my property at my sole discretion. Regardless if harm is meant or done. The person that pays the taxes should have the final say.

Show me the law or statute that makes corner crossing illegal in Wyoming.

Also stepping from one piece of public land to another piece of public land is not impacting your private property rights. Your private property rights are intact.

Further, Public Property rights are not any less valid than Private Property rights.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Man, I'm pretty excited .I just got of the phone with my aunt Liz C . She said with new public access to 2.44 million acres in Wyoming she was gonna talk to some of the state legislators about making all of it a "non-resident only " hunting area to help with some of the tag and overcrowding issues. Who says politicans don't work for you. I take back everything I've said. I just wanna say one thing "You guys are the best!". Not that I wanna start any rumors, but tell your friends

You know what, I’m in. Make it NR only and allow NR’s to hunt only in that area. Elk Mountain has some excellent hunting. Everyone wins!

 

[Wyobohunter]

Some on here have said if the private landowners don't allow the general public access to Public lands through their private land then they shouldn't be allowed to access it either. The landowners that own the offending corner are also part of the public same as you or I. The difference is they can access it legally the way the law is now and we can't.

If the corner crossing issue isn’t resolved in a way that allows the public to access public land I’d be all for no access allowed to anyone. Let the land go completely feral and call it “four corners pre-human wilderness”. Fence it off to everyone. Make that a law… then everyone would just have to follow the law

 

[Wyobohunter]

Nothing to me takes precedence over property rights. Public or private.

Fixed it for ya!

 

[william schmaltz]

I think I remember this guy having some sort of fence directly through the corner between his two sections (disregard if I'm thinking somewhere else). By his definition, this would mean he has developed BLM land, likely without the appropriate permit. Even that 1/16th of an inch of wire crossing the BLM airspace should not be allowable. Has anyone contacted the local BLM folks to talk about enforcement for these actions? Serious question, it's super petty, but he earned it. It would be worth knowing BLM's take on it.

 

[Theringworm]

There are so many ways landowners can get around this with the states help. Suddnely pinpoint corners now become overlapping 10ft spans. The exchange of BLM/Forest land for other private land happens all the time. Forest service exchanged a huge swath of land to a private owner next to my wife’s families ranch and a national Forest in Colorado. Over night a metal locked gate was installed that originally gave you access to the forest service road up to a trail head that was now private property. Then the forest service had to cut a new road 5 miles around the mountain as part of the deal to keep people off his NEW private property and reroute a hiking trail. His new private property has no fences. So unless you have a gps with ONX to keep you off it, if he catches you he has had people arrested and posts humiliating stories about you in the local town paper. A real piece of work this guy is. But, the Forest Service gladly made the switch with him. They got some of his private property some where else in the state.

Any legislation that says you can’t have high fences in Wyoming? IF not LO could just as easily put up opposing high fence corners if they owned the opposing property or coordinated it with the opposing land owner. That would complicate the ease of crossing over as well.

 

[Gutshot007]

If the corner crossing issue isn’t resolved in a way that allows the public to access public land I’d be all for no access allowed to anyone. Let the land go completely feral and call it “four corners pre-human wilderness”. Fence it off to everyone. Make that a law… then everyone would just have to follow the law

Hey could we at least do " EARLY - human wilderness "so I could at least use a self bow and do a little flint knapping and then climb the fence without breaking the law

 

[william schmaltz]

Any legislation that says you can’t have high fences in Wyoming? IF not LO could just as easily put up opposing high fence corners if they owned the opposing property or coordinated it with the opposing land owner. That would complicate the ease of crossing over as well.

Honesty, if I owned the land in this case, this is exactly what I would've done if I wanted to keep people out. On each of the opposing private sections, dig in posts so they're 8 feet or so out of the ground and just a few inches inside the corner and extend it out 10 or so feet along my property lines. Then put up about 8 strands of barbed wire. Make sure there is a few inch gap at the corner between the two fence sections so I'm not on BLM land. Doing this would've saved this guy a whole pile of trouble. This is what I'm gonna do when I win the lottery. I will also add a big laminated picture of Shawn Michaels doing the "suck it" gesture on each fence to rub it into all you poors!

 

[BuzzH]

I think I remember this guy having some sort of fence directly through the corner between his two sections (disregard if I'm thinking somewhere else). By his definition, this would mean he has developed BLM land, likely without the appropriate permit. Even that 1/16th of an inch of wire crossing the BLM airspace should not be allowable. Has anyone contacted the local BLM folks to talk about enforcement for these actions? Serious question, it's super petty, but he earned it. It would be worth knowing BLM's take on it.

You mean this one?

This is a violation for sure under the UIA via his BLM lease agreements.

The chain and locks have been removed, according to Steve Grende's testimony in the criminal case.