Late 2025 - state of late season outer layers

[MT_Wyatt]

I'd like to capture a discussion accross the next couple months on late season outer layers. What's working and what is not. Photos and hot washes are very welcome here. Every year there's more options, updated models, updated tech, hybrids, change in DWR and breathability, blah blah. And there's also the idea that no real changes are seen, just rehashes on same truths.

So - simply, I'm looking to hear from those with field experience, in real time this fall (or the past), on a couple things.
1. What do you like to use and why (base/mid underneath as applicable are helpful for folks researching).
2. If applicable, what did you try that's "new" for you and why? How did it work (venting, precip, wind, packable/all day wear, etc).
3. Feedback on specific experiences with pieces - conditions, wind, precip, temps, drying, wear, layering ability.

Lots of threads on specific pieces - I'd like to have something compiled here that's a better survey of what's out there and what people's field experiences are for piece types as well as models. Although I'm asking about outer wear, the way you layer that outer piece obviously matters. If you're anti-soft shell, for example, please tell us what you're using for a weatherproof layer instead.

To start I'll give some examples:
- Stone Glacier M7 lined/taped soft face hard shell - softer/quieter, vents, layers well, drys relatively quickly, lighter, water and wind proof. Can get overheated pretty quick in this unless < 20F.
- Arctyrex Beta AR gortex pro hard shell - best for the rain but too loud once snow hits/freezing.
- Stone Glacier DeHavilland soft shell: too trim to layer much under, but optimal collar height, wind cuts through a good bit. Not large enough piece to be flexible as an outer layer. Easy to wear and keep on all day. Not super useful < 20F to me.
- Kuiu guide jacket: a bit too trim, not as flexible to layer with, good breathability but late season winds cut down on its usefulness. Somewhat clammy to wear. Not super useful < 20F to me.
- Stone Glacier Cirque: not as windproof but there is a bit of resistence, only an outer on the extremely cold days, does vent well, layers decently (arms very trim), good warmth, dries well.
- FL catalyst - best as a mid layer replacment, decent drying and breathability, odd fit, not as useful for colder conditions, much softer hand than most soft shells.
- Arctyrex Gamma MX - best true softshell I have ever used, best fleece lining and face, flexible cut, not crazy heavy, decent wind and water resistance. No membrane.
*lots of the past winter shoot to hunt guys talking about mega wool sweaters?

This year I am testing a FL North Range syn puffy some, and I am going to test a Kuiu Guide Pro for softshell days (day hunts late season moving most of the day, always wearing as out layer moving, puffy over the top when stopped) - this is a bonded piece and nylon exterior vs poly, no windstopper. My go to has been the M7 for past couple years and I see it as being tough to unseat as "optimal" for my use. I have used the sitka ambient hoody a TON as a dedicated later mid-layer and like it. I'd like to hear users of the new Jetstream and LT model, for example.

 

[doverpack12]

Great idea. I’ll get my initial thoughts and historic use down then update throughout Montana rifle season.

Would love to try an M7/Kuiu Yukon for colder wet days or extended hunts without heat/drying.

KUIU Axis is the best soft shell I’ve found. The guide is useless compared to Axis. I can layer a Patagonia nano puff, peloton 240/97 and a base under. Can get a Ghar puffy under but getting tight. Axis flat blocks wind. Period. Reasonable heat management when moving, has done well in rain/snow mix and colder.

KUIU guide don’t bother, doesn’t do anything that well.

Sitka Jetstream 2017 or so up to this years revamp. They block wind, heavy and bulky, nice to wear, layer somewhat under but waist tapers a lot (and I’m not big in the waist compared to my body). Not very good rain/snow resistance will wet out quickly with much of either. Doesn’t breathe or vent well. Too limited of a use application to warrant owning.

If it’s not wet the peloton 240 is awful hard for me to beat as an outer layer. Cuts most wind or all wind until it’s howling. Quiet with a little use, layers well for either a mid layer with a few under or outer layer in dry conditions. I’ve put active insulation vests and jackets under but typically SS peloton 118, peloton 97 and a 240 will cover beginning of Bow season in early September through low teens if moving.

Active insulation.
I have a hard time with these. I’m not willing to give up wind resistance.
KUIU Kenai vest
Sitka Ambient vest
Sitka ambient shacket (hood and longer t shirt line sleeves)
Sitka ambient 150 full zip jacket
None of the above did enough for me to keep. I have a hard time fitting them into my system. I tried them with a rain jacket over in place of a soft shell/240 and with those two shells/outers. Too much sacrifice and not enough or any gain.
This year I have the OV preorder 1/2 zip. Liking it so far through now season. Used with a peloton 240 vest it’s done alright. Real test is coming to see if it’s useful enough with enough function in cold late active hunts.
Also have KUIU Snap shirt this year (40 gr 3DeFx) but this face material blocks wind or most wind. Not an outer layer but under a 240 or axis might be the ticket. I wear it a ton standalone or over a 200 wt fleece the rest of the year.

Puffy
Any 5 oz down filled is generally not enough from here out. They work well from early September through mid October as long as there is no snow.
SKRE Ptarmigan (5oz fill) was good, I prefer no hood so went to a Kryptek Ghar (grey shell version). The Ghar functions like a 6-7 oz fill puffy with the dual insulation. I like not having a hood and it’s worked well for 5-6 years. Not enough jacket from here on.
Have a Sitka down WS that works very well for true cold nasty conditions. They never should have discontinued it. Bulky but it has to be.
Forget the FL Chamberlain I’ve never been colder in a big bulky heavily insulated jacket.
This year I have a SG Grumman (5 oz ish fill) jacket in 2XL instead of my normal XL to try in combo with the Ghar. Thought/idea is to be more versatile across a wider range of conditions that the singular Sitka Down WS.

I’ve had Russell, Kryptek, Core 4 Element, First Lite. Bought and sold a ton over the years to find the right fit and use.

That’s where I’m at. 15 years ago it was army surplus wool pants, polypro base with a turtle neck, wool sweater and plaid button up insulated shirt.
Typical rifle season day is a 2 hour hike in the dark with 1500-2000 feet of gain then still hunting for the day with up to another 1000 feet of gain. Usually change my base just before daylight and don’t wear much on the climb in the dark.

 

[justinspicher]

I’ve used the same setup for the past couple of later seasons (November) here in SW Colorado.

Patagonia long sleeve base layer
Patagonia nano puffy vest
Patagonia nano air pullover hoody
FL brimmed beanie
Patagonia softshell pants
DT socks
Scarpa boots
Mechanix gloves/Marmot insulated gloves

So far this has worked well for me, I don’t see me changing anything for this season.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I’ve been through some layers so far this year.

Kuiu Guide Pro: fit certainly better than original, nice and quiet, but the sample shipped to me didn’t have a functioning cord loc on one side of the hood. It was also a tad short for the size. I decided to return it.

FL North Range: big surprise, honestly their newer designer or fit block or whatever is extremely dialed. Especially the arms, overall length, and hood. I wore this as an outer layer a decent bit, moved in it during cold and high wind days. So far it’s durable, simple and effective for a synthetic piece. The only thing that compares for fill amount is the SG cirque. Still quite pleased with it. Weights 20.2 oz in a medium.

FL softshell: Based on above and wanting a wind proof late season shell for day hunts, I opted to try a FL Suppressor soft shell on a whim instead of a Sitka jetstream. After some long field days with it a few things stick out. The first is I didn’t have an issue with it getting clammy, even though it’s wind proof (which is effective). I was impressed with the lined sleeves to make layering easy, the flat cuffs work well, the hood is excellent. Most surprising is the goofy chest vents - you can actually open them with a bino harness and pack on, and they are effective for dumping heat. Weighs right at 22.4oz in a med.

Sitka Hyperdown: I can’t quit this parka, it just works so damn well for keeping me warm. Awesome hood/collar and warmth for the weight. Haven’t used the pants so far. They are heavy for what they are, to me, for a backpack hunt.

Wouldn’t have guessed a couple FL pieces would be so impressive to me, but they really seemed to have improved fit, materials, features, and build quality.

 

[Fritz D]

Wyatt,
What is the fit like for you on the Hyper Down Parka? I’ve been eyeballing one pretty hard lately, especially since they are on sale?

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Wyatt,
What is the fit like for you on the Hyper Down Parka? I’ve been eyeballing one pretty hard lately, especially since they are on sale?

Quite generous, they are cut to layer over everything, including bino harness. A tad longer than normal as well. Almost impossible to get a shell over it honestly, mega puffy. I wish they'd do the expedry fill in these like the sleep bag but the 10% syn fill is a nice feature with primalift gold down blend.

 

[Fritz D]

Appreciate the info! I’m an XL in Sitka outer layers and a tall L in base layers-sounds like an XL in the parka would be the way to go?

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Appreciate the info! I’m an XL in Sitka outer layers and a tall L in base layers-sounds like an XL in the parka would be the way to go?

I’d stick with your normal outer wear size for sure.

 

[Fritz D]

Thanks again. Just ordered one in XL.

 

[COJoe]

I just got back from 4th season elk in southern CO last week. In seven days we experienced a couple snow storms in the week, one dry snow the other wet snow. This year the weather allowed me to test al my gear at some point and I don't see any need to change anything going forward for next year. About half of my gear was bought used and I either wore or carried these pieces with me everyday. I don't have the years of experience as others on this forum but I bought my gear based on advice from this forum and it all works well together when used as a layering system. I hiked cool so I didn't work up a sweat but did sweat too much once and merino wool base layer dried well. I hope it helps someone.

I wore these two pieces everyday and night, both breathed very well.
Stone Glacier long sleeve merino base layer used- breathed well while hiking with load
older Sitka Fanatic hoodie used - no reason to replace it, always wore the hood up and used the face mask continuously while sitting and occasionally while sleeping.

Sitka Ambient 100 jacket new - The best piece I own, very versatile, breathes very well even while hiking with a load, DWR held up good in wet snow and busting through snow ladened deadfall/pines, dries real well when wet and stayed warm when soaked from snow and I was still moving
Sitka Jetstream vest used - great for wind block and supplemental heat retention. I wore this piece over my two base layers while hiking a couple 3-4 miles in 30 degrees or less weather.
Black Ovis puffy jacket new - when needed for heat retention
Stone glacier Dehaviland jacket new - only wore once for short time, should have wore in snowstorm while packing out but I have found I don't use this piece much unless really windy
Sitka Dew Point jacket new - wore in snow storm while hiking out slowly, no tears or holes even in deadfall thankfully. I always have it and pants in pack.

SG Helio bottoms used - wore these 24 hours a day, real comfortable to sleep in, helped keep me warm in mornings of 18 degrees and late day, were comfortable to walk in all day even when temps were in upper 40s.
Sitka Timberline pants used - workhorse pants, tough in deadfall/pines with zero holes/tears, knee pads helped with snow and muddy/wet conditions.
Black Ovis puffy pants new - only wore twice in 18 degree mornings, easy to put on and were warm
Darn Tough Hunter socks - four year old socks that are just darn tough, paired with Smartwool silk liner socks, zero blisters, feet got cold while sitting in cold mornings but were ok as soon as sun came up.
Crispi Colorado (original) boots uninsulated four year old boots - feet were cold on 18 degree mornings but not unbearable, feet were comfortablewhile walking, cold snow always covered toe area but boots never leaked, these boots work so well on steep slopes and all day walking at times.

Black Ovis glommits with their 200g merino wool liners were really warm.
older Sitka water resistant gloves worked ok until wet snow storm