Hey all, first timer on a review.
Background:
31 years old
245lbs
6' 0"
21.5" torso
32" inseam
I recently did a 5k which consisted of carrying a bunch of weight, doing land nav, shooting (precision, carbine, pistol), etc. We trained a bunch leading up to the event. I had an ILBE and used it throughout. As I was doing more distance and more weight I was learning more about packs on websites like this one. I looked at different manufacturers, did a ton of research and watched a lot of videos. I learned about things like how load lifters work, pack sizes, proper fitment, etc.
Coming from using the ILBE I had a few complaints any new pack would HAVE to solve.
1) It absolutely had to provide some shoulder lift. The ilbe has load lifter attachments which are even with the tops of my shoulders so I'm holding some shoulder weight no matter what.
2) The new pack has to have a forward pull waist belt. I'm constantly trying to unclip, tighten slightly, then re-clip by back and forth trying to clear the material on my shirt/pants/coat/etc. I can't get nearly enough tension through the waist belt with the outward pull belt.
3) It needed more capacity than the ilbe.
The third point is explained by saying I'm getting more into camping / hiking and my wife and 2 year old daughter want to as well. I end up being the sherpa. Although the ILBE can carry a week's worth of gear for me, when I add a 3 person tent, 3 sleeping bags, 3 people's sleeping pads, etc then I need a TON more room even for a simple overnighter.
------------------
Test
I decided to go all out and buy a nice set-up from KUIU and from Kifaru because those were the two companies who had packs that met my needs. They both have evaluation periods and returns for clean / like-new gear. I made two orders.
Kuiu: One icon pro frame (tall) and one of each of 7200, 3200, 1850 bags icon pro bags. (~$540 with sale)
Kifaru: Tactical frame with additional carbon arrows, guide lid, EMR II and some compression straps (~$950)
The kuiu arrived in a week or two, the kifaru took maybe 3-4 weeks.
-------
Kuiu
Good:
Overall this was nice gear. I know some people give them a lot of crap, but I was impressed. The method of attachment from the frame to the bag seemed solid. The hardware seemed to be high quality. The material was lighter than I thought it would be and thinner...although it turns out that's just 500D and I wasn't used to it. The compression straps worked well. It was all packaged nice. The waist belt adjustment works awesome...a lot better than the kifaru in fact. It cinches up tight enough to hurt without much trouble. I got plenty of load lift and what an amazing thing that is with a bunch of weight in the bag. I went up to about 90lbs with clean water bottles around the house. I wanted to make sure to honor their return policy and keep things clean, but wanted to see how it worked. The frame support and the waist belt worked very well at holding the load. I'm a materials engineer...and their materials feel really nice. Their foams, fabrics, padding, etc just feel luxurious compared to the colder-harder-more durable kifaru stuff.
Bad:
Although the hardware felt very solid, it is also very small. The straps, including the shoulder strap adjustments are a much smaller size (in width and thickness) than I'm used to. I never broke any, but I would be worried. The hardware matches the small webbing size and I felt constantly like I had to be careful pulling on anything. The shoulder strap hardware is just as small, although it is cast from metal. All of the straps have plastic keepers which is nice to keep it out of your way, but it is also a PIA because they keep the ends tight and you can't find them for adjustments...especially the shoulder strap adjustment webbing.
The 7200 bag and the 1850 bags were great. The 7200 compresses down and can be used as a daypack, but the 1850 was sweet. If I was keeping the kuiu I'd keep those two bags. The 3200 seemed out of place. It's far too small to pack a lot in, but was as big as the 7200 when compressed so it didn't feel like a small daypack either. I don't see much benefit in that size personally.
Also, there was no way to cinch the load tightly enough to the frame that it didn't move. When I loaded up the bag with all that water, if I twisted my body to the left, the bag would slip independently of the frame further. This could lead to balance problems, etc. It didn't feel like it could tear loose, but it was definitely not connected like a single unit.
-----------------------
Kifaru
Good:
Pretty much everything. You guys know kifaru's stuff. Specifically, the frame just feels great when cinched down.
Also the EMR II is gigantic. I was able to put every piece of camping gear I own (enough for the whole family for a few days easy) in the bag, cinch it down, and didn't even need to use the guide lid. It was nice and wide...but it fit. Unlike the kuiu the EMR even fully loaded was tight to the frame. If I twisted quickly, the bag and frame moved together and I went for a ride. I feel like this is desirable.
Bad:
The waist belt doesn't work nearly as well as the kuiu. When I pull hard on one side towards the center it will adjust at the buckle a little bit and just flex in the waistbelt from the frame the rest. So when I let go it's only tightened a very small amount. I found a workaround by pulling in with the end of the strap and helping the webbing through the buckle with my other hand. This fully tightens the belt, but it isn't as clean as the kuiu design. The plastic keeper on the outside also will slide and pull out of position requiring me to stop and fix that before I can keep tightening. The ends of the waist belt are rolled over and tack stitched, but they bury themselves in the adjuster bars and make it really hard to dig them out to get moving. I have to be careful to pull them free slightly before clipping the waist belt or it's a 2 minute ordeal to get them free enough to start tightening. Annoying, but not a deal breaker.
Also the price. It sucks that I get a lid, frame, and bag for over $900 while I can get a frame and 3 full bags for only ~$550 at kuiu although that included the big sale they had. I'm not complaining as I know there are reasons for the differences, but it still hurts the ol' wallet.
----------------------------
Summary
I think I'm keeping the kifaru. I wanted to get the best set-up and have something that I can keep forever. I think the kifaru is it. That said, if I had ordered the kuiu only...I would have been perfectly happy with it. If you don't know any better I think you'll be completely pleased with their packs. The frames are rigid and solid, the bags are nice, and they are certainly lightweight. But since I did the bonehead move of buying both and comparing, it is now pretty obvious that the kifaru is better. I'm not completely convinced it's $400 better...but it's better. The money has already been spent and I'm not going to fight about it at this point. I'll return the kuiu with no bitter feelings and a position to jump in when people are dog piling them without good reason. Down the road I'll probably pick up a cargo hauler for the kifaru to carry sandbag(s) for training. Maybe some more pockets or something. But for now I'm good with the guide lid, EMR II, and frame.
One more point...everyone says the tactical frame is heavy so I got the carbon arrows...what in the bush? It doesn't weigh anything. I think people are too big on the grams and ounces. Go carry the ILBE which is like 10lbs empty. The emr II and frame together out of the box weighs about as much as a shoe. I'll probably never take the time to put the carbon arrows in. Luckily they were cheap so I don't feel too bad about it.
I'll try to monitor this thread, add additional thoughts, answer questions, etc...at least for awhile. This is sort of stream-of-consciousness, but I hope it's been helpful to some of you.
Background:
31 years old
245lbs
6' 0"
21.5" torso
32" inseam
I recently did a 5k which consisted of carrying a bunch of weight, doing land nav, shooting (precision, carbine, pistol), etc. We trained a bunch leading up to the event. I had an ILBE and used it throughout. As I was doing more distance and more weight I was learning more about packs on websites like this one. I looked at different manufacturers, did a ton of research and watched a lot of videos. I learned about things like how load lifters work, pack sizes, proper fitment, etc.
Coming from using the ILBE I had a few complaints any new pack would HAVE to solve.
1) It absolutely had to provide some shoulder lift. The ilbe has load lifter attachments which are even with the tops of my shoulders so I'm holding some shoulder weight no matter what.
2) The new pack has to have a forward pull waist belt. I'm constantly trying to unclip, tighten slightly, then re-clip by back and forth trying to clear the material on my shirt/pants/coat/etc. I can't get nearly enough tension through the waist belt with the outward pull belt.
3) It needed more capacity than the ilbe.
The third point is explained by saying I'm getting more into camping / hiking and my wife and 2 year old daughter want to as well. I end up being the sherpa. Although the ILBE can carry a week's worth of gear for me, when I add a 3 person tent, 3 sleeping bags, 3 people's sleeping pads, etc then I need a TON more room even for a simple overnighter.
------------------
Test
I decided to go all out and buy a nice set-up from KUIU and from Kifaru because those were the two companies who had packs that met my needs. They both have evaluation periods and returns for clean / like-new gear. I made two orders.
Kuiu: One icon pro frame (tall) and one of each of 7200, 3200, 1850 bags icon pro bags. (~$540 with sale)
Kifaru: Tactical frame with additional carbon arrows, guide lid, EMR II and some compression straps (~$950)
The kuiu arrived in a week or two, the kifaru took maybe 3-4 weeks.
-------
Kuiu
Good:
Overall this was nice gear. I know some people give them a lot of crap, but I was impressed. The method of attachment from the frame to the bag seemed solid. The hardware seemed to be high quality. The material was lighter than I thought it would be and thinner...although it turns out that's just 500D and I wasn't used to it. The compression straps worked well. It was all packaged nice. The waist belt adjustment works awesome...a lot better than the kifaru in fact. It cinches up tight enough to hurt without much trouble. I got plenty of load lift and what an amazing thing that is with a bunch of weight in the bag. I went up to about 90lbs with clean water bottles around the house. I wanted to make sure to honor their return policy and keep things clean, but wanted to see how it worked. The frame support and the waist belt worked very well at holding the load. I'm a materials engineer...and their materials feel really nice. Their foams, fabrics, padding, etc just feel luxurious compared to the colder-harder-more durable kifaru stuff.
Bad:
Although the hardware felt very solid, it is also very small. The straps, including the shoulder strap adjustments are a much smaller size (in width and thickness) than I'm used to. I never broke any, but I would be worried. The hardware matches the small webbing size and I felt constantly like I had to be careful pulling on anything. The shoulder strap hardware is just as small, although it is cast from metal. All of the straps have plastic keepers which is nice to keep it out of your way, but it is also a PIA because they keep the ends tight and you can't find them for adjustments...especially the shoulder strap adjustment webbing.
The 7200 bag and the 1850 bags were great. The 7200 compresses down and can be used as a daypack, but the 1850 was sweet. If I was keeping the kuiu I'd keep those two bags. The 3200 seemed out of place. It's far too small to pack a lot in, but was as big as the 7200 when compressed so it didn't feel like a small daypack either. I don't see much benefit in that size personally.
Also, there was no way to cinch the load tightly enough to the frame that it didn't move. When I loaded up the bag with all that water, if I twisted my body to the left, the bag would slip independently of the frame further. This could lead to balance problems, etc. It didn't feel like it could tear loose, but it was definitely not connected like a single unit.
-----------------------
Kifaru
Good:
Pretty much everything. You guys know kifaru's stuff. Specifically, the frame just feels great when cinched down.
Also the EMR II is gigantic. I was able to put every piece of camping gear I own (enough for the whole family for a few days easy) in the bag, cinch it down, and didn't even need to use the guide lid. It was nice and wide...but it fit. Unlike the kuiu the EMR even fully loaded was tight to the frame. If I twisted quickly, the bag and frame moved together and I went for a ride. I feel like this is desirable.
Bad:
The waist belt doesn't work nearly as well as the kuiu. When I pull hard on one side towards the center it will adjust at the buckle a little bit and just flex in the waistbelt from the frame the rest. So when I let go it's only tightened a very small amount. I found a workaround by pulling in with the end of the strap and helping the webbing through the buckle with my other hand. This fully tightens the belt, but it isn't as clean as the kuiu design. The plastic keeper on the outside also will slide and pull out of position requiring me to stop and fix that before I can keep tightening. The ends of the waist belt are rolled over and tack stitched, but they bury themselves in the adjuster bars and make it really hard to dig them out to get moving. I have to be careful to pull them free slightly before clipping the waist belt or it's a 2 minute ordeal to get them free enough to start tightening. Annoying, but not a deal breaker.
Also the price. It sucks that I get a lid, frame, and bag for over $900 while I can get a frame and 3 full bags for only ~$550 at kuiu although that included the big sale they had. I'm not complaining as I know there are reasons for the differences, but it still hurts the ol' wallet.
----------------------------
Summary
I think I'm keeping the kifaru. I wanted to get the best set-up and have something that I can keep forever. I think the kifaru is it. That said, if I had ordered the kuiu only...I would have been perfectly happy with it. If you don't know any better I think you'll be completely pleased with their packs. The frames are rigid and solid, the bags are nice, and they are certainly lightweight. But since I did the bonehead move of buying both and comparing, it is now pretty obvious that the kifaru is better. I'm not completely convinced it's $400 better...but it's better. The money has already been spent and I'm not going to fight about it at this point. I'll return the kuiu with no bitter feelings and a position to jump in when people are dog piling them without good reason. Down the road I'll probably pick up a cargo hauler for the kifaru to carry sandbag(s) for training. Maybe some more pockets or something. But for now I'm good with the guide lid, EMR II, and frame.
One more point...everyone says the tactical frame is heavy so I got the carbon arrows...what in the bush? It doesn't weigh anything. I think people are too big on the grams and ounces. Go carry the ILBE which is like 10lbs empty. The emr II and frame together out of the box weighs about as much as a shoe. I'll probably never take the time to put the carbon arrows in. Luckily they were cheap so I don't feel too bad about it.
I'll try to monitor this thread, add additional thoughts, answer questions, etc...at least for awhile. This is sort of stream-of-consciousness, but I hope it's been helpful to some of you.
