Kuiu vs Eastman

[fngTony]

^^^^^

 

[cgippe]

Funny, Kuiu says it so it must be so? Ha, Kuiu has put people's lives at risk and not given money back for failed products but yup because Jason say Eastmans is scamming him it must be true. This is the reason we have a justice/court system, Kuiu will fail as there is no way they have access to all fulfillment information of a private company, similar to you and I have zero clue how much inventory Kuiu sells each year.

So go ahead and act like Eastmans is wrong, believe everything Jason says and take it to the bank.

How has Kuiu put lives at risk? Just curious....

Kuiu has a lot more revenue than people think..you can read some Business articles online (50 million in sales last year?)...maybe they are false and you can sue them?

I had a subscription to Eastmans...never renewed as I didnt think the content was worth it. Probably issues with both companies.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

How has Kuiu put lives at risk? Just curious....

Kuiu has a lot more revenue than people think..you can read some Business articles online (50 million in sales last year?)...maybe they are false and you can sue them?

I had a subscription to Eastmans...never renewed as I didnt think the content was worth it. Probably issues with both companies.

Their first gen tent was a DWR coated coated nylon fabric. The closest tent I know of is the Black Diamond offerings, which use a breathable fabric, which isn't PU coated. The Kuiu tent leaked, which the BD ones can do in a severe moisture event. Kuiu advertises the utmost technical and design prowess, among other language saying everything they've ever done is the best, and cite testing in the absolute harshest conditions. Obviously that's inflated, but they have done very good things. Pics showed up of leaking tents. Kuiu released some info saying they couldn't reproduce the leaking, but they did pull all the tents from the market (I think it was on their forum when they got called out for it). They never formally addressed the leaking tents, just said they replaced/updated the fabric in gen 2.

So when people say they risked lives, the implication is they failed to test that fabric, and people in extreme conditions were exposed.

This is the Internet, so believe what you will. Kuiu nuked their forum, which was "under construction" forever, but it never came back. So you can't actually find the tent discussion on there, which was super, super critical of them. What's written above is solely based on my memory, and following their design, which aside from that first fabric, is impressive.

 

[dotman]

How has Kuiu put lives at risk? Just curious....

Kuiu has a lot more revenue than people think..you can read some Business articles online (50 million in sales last year?)...maybe they are false and you can sue them?

I had a subscription to Eastmans...never renewed as I didnt think the content was worth it. Probably issues with both companies.

Haha, only investors and creditors would sue on false rev claims. Being a privately held company he can say any number he wants to the public for what his sales are and it doesn't matter.

I'll let you use your imagination of how the gear we use if it fails can lead to death, that goes for any companies products failing.

Yeah I had Eastmans for a few years, really it became a joke when every article started " I drew the tag of a lifetime" plus hunting stories are good in moderation but I didn't like that it was 85% of the mag.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

These kuiu threads are always so much fun.

 

[N2TRKYS]

So, are the Kuiu Yukon gaiters still a good purchase?

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

So, are the Kuiu Yukon gaiters still a good purchase?

Not many people will question the quality of kuiu clothing.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Not many people will question the quality of kuiu clothing.

I've never had any of their stuff. I've seen good reviews on their gaiters. I guess I'll order a pair of their gaiters.

 

[Mark]

So, are the Kuiu Yukon gaiters still a good purchase?

Absolutely. Not a think wrong with them.

However, the OR Crocodiles have worked better for me.

 

[fngTony]

These kuiu threads are always so much fun.

Especially when they go this long without being pulled.

 

[oenanthe]

These kuiu threads are always so much fun.

And if you follow some of the links and look at the pictures, you can learn new and interesting ways of holding a canoe paddle.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

At the end of the day I liked KUIU's story and business model; however it feels as though it's becoming more corporate and big agenda and less about hunting. For instance the attack pants are made and designed well, but the actual material is not that durable. I had runs and snags on the seat of the pants after first use. Between the politics, law suits, and the better then you attitude I'll be giving First Lite my money.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

Eastmans official press release
Eastmans’ Lawsuit – Official Statement | Eastmans' Official Blog | Mule Deer, Antelope, Elk Hunting and Bowhunting Magazine | Eastmans' Hunting Journals

 

[COlineman78]

Wow, interesting to hear the other side. Also I find it interesting that Kuiu filed suit in California where the courts are known to side with the plaintiffs with far less proof. This is why almost every patent infringement case gets filed in California. After just having read both suits I also found the wording in Kuiu's suit interesting in using wording like "scheme to dupe it (and other advertisers)"; the word dupe seems out of place in a legal document. Also, the entire Kuiu complaint states that the numbers are exaggerated and in details spells out the numbers they were given but nowhere states why they believe the actual numbers are far less and only state it as fact without any sort of reasoning. Since this is the basis for their case, I would like to know how they ascertained that the numbers had been inflated since Eastman's is saying that the USPS audits the numbers.

 

[tipsntails7]

Wow, interesting to hear the other side. Also I find it interesting that Kuiu filed suit in California where the courts are known to side with the plaintiffs with far less proof. This is why almost every patent infringement case gets filed in California. After just having read both suits I also found the wording in Kuiu's suit interesting in using wording like "scheme to dupe it (and other advertisers)"; the word dupe seems out of place in a legal document. Also, the entire Kuiu complaint states that the numbers are exaggerated and in details spells out the numbers they were given but nowhere states why they believe the actual numbers are far less and only state it as fact without any sort of reasoning. Since this is the basis for their case, I would like to know how they ascertained that the numbers had been inflated since Eastman's is saying that the USPS audits the numbers.

Kuiu would have been dumbasses if they didn't file in California, they are the plantiff, they reside in California, and the court house where it will be herd is like 30 minutes from the store. Why wouldn't they file there?

Full disclosure I didn't read any of the legal documents as I read legal shit all day and really could careless how this one comes out. For the Eastmans I hope they win, if not they may be in for a real shit storm.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[COlineman78]

Kuiu would have been dumbasses if they didn't file in California, they are the plantiff, they reside in California, and the court house where it will be herd is like 30 minutes from the store. Why wouldn't they file there?

They could've just counter-sued in WY where they are already going to have to fight in court. That way there would only be one court case. Also would've saved both sides a lot of lawyer $$$. Just hedging their bet I guess; too bad it's at the cost of the taxpayers.

Full disclosure: I am of the strong belief that we are far too litigious as a society and that the courts need to start punishing those who file frivolous lawsuits. I was so happy to see the courts hand a huge judgement down against the families suing the movie theater in Aurora for the James Holmes shooting (I'm sure they got talked into it by some ambulance chaser, so hopefully he gets his due). When I was in Germany there is a static wave in the Englischer Garten in Munich that people surf on and I guess some guy had fallen and died after hitting his head on some underwater concrete. In the US the city would be forced to put a guarded 12' fence up, tear down the bridge and redesign it to get rid of the wave. There they put up a sign that says "If you surf, you will die" because they don't have to worry about lawsuits where someone here would win in saying it wasn't properly placed or the text wasn't big enough or some BS. There is a long line of surfers there every day and their attitude is that they warned you and it's your decision to ignore it.

 

[tipsntails7]

They could've just counter-sued in WY where they are already going to have to fight in court. That way there would only be one court case. Also would've saved both sides a lot of lawyer $$$. Just hedging their bet I guess; too bad it's at the cost of the taxpayers.

Full disclosure: I am of the strong belief that we are far too litigious as a society and that the courts need to start punishing those who file frivolous lawsuits. I was so happy to see the courts hand a huge judgement down against the families suing the movie theater in Aurora for the James Holmes shooting (I'm sure they got talked into it by some ambulance chaser, so hopefully he gets his due). When I was in Germany there is a static wave in the Englischer Garten in Munich that people surf on and I guess some guy had fallen and died after hitting his head on some underwater concrete. In the US the city would be forced to put a guarded 12' fence up, tear down the bridge and redesign it to get rid of the wave. There they put up a sign that says "If you surf, you will die" because they don't have to worry about lawsuits where someone here would win in saying it wasn't properly placed or the text wasn't big enough or some BS. There is a long line of surfers there every day and their attitude is that they warned you and it's your decision to ignore it.

You and I see eye to eye on all that, that's for sure.

I wasn't aware Eastman was already suing Kuiu... Kuiu is doing a remarkable job of ensuring no one on this planet besides Toray wants to work with them. Unfortunately with the culture and image he has built I am not sure this will actually hurt his bottom line as far as customers.

The people that say they were on the fence about Kuiu never really intended in buying Kuiu anyway, and if people continued to purchase Kuiu through all the other BS this won't change that. He targeted the very wealthy "Mountain hunter" and then convinced a lot of people everything they put out is now the best thing on the planet. He's got a cool camo, it's recognizable, and has become a status symbol. If Jason wasn't such a tool I would probably admire what he has done as far as his business acumen is concerned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MattB]

No but it covers the guys statement you quoted. Unless you work for Kuiu or directly had a denial you are correct that is hard to verify but his statement was pretty generic and really only says they act like (denial) they never had frames break or issues not that they denied replacing broken frames that fell under warranty.

I bet they replaced every broken frame, how many we'll never know, that was within their warranty coverage. I would assume that goes for every item they sell.

Elizabeth Warren is flashing through my mind...

He specifically stated "if you ask them they would say it's never happened!" That is a definitive statement. If you believe Kuiu ever replaced a frame under warranty, it invalidates that statement. Why defend it? Or are facts merely inconvenient in a witch hunt?

 

[tipsntails7]

Elizabeth Warren is flashing through my mind...

He specifically stated "if you ask them they would say it's never happened!" That is a definitive statement. If you believe Kuiu ever replaced a frame under warranty, it invalidates that statement. Why defend it? Or are facts merely inconvenient in a witch hunt?

Tongue and cheek statements on an Internet forum are hardly definitive statements...

I will say, I broke 2 frames, both were replaced in a very timely manner, both CS reps said it was the first they herd about it... doubtful. To act as Kuiu didn't try and down play it is just obtuse. Either way this has nothing to do with the content in this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[orionsbrother]

And if you follow some of the links and look at the pictures, you can learn new and interesting ways of holding a canoe paddle.

Yeah. I caught that too. Kind of like the shots of guys holding a spinning rod or fly rod, reel up.