KUIU Super Down vs. Western Mountaineering Badger, 15-degree bags

[robby denning]

Here you go @robby denning. Dragged this up from the web

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Wow Chris, thanks for posting that. It’s amazing I hit the exact temperature as their “T limit“ temperature. Thanks man

 

[hmbleservant]

I appreciate you taking the time, Robby. You da man

 

[deadwolf]

Maybe I’ve missed it in a different thread, but did you ever do a review or comparison to the Stone Glacier Chillicothe bag Robby?


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[robby denning]

Maybe I’ve missed it in a different thread, but did you ever do a review or comparison to the Stone Glacier Chillicothe bag Robby?


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No, I did the stone glacier bag last year but not in a head to head. I started to compare it to the western mountaineering bag on the live muzzleloader hunt I did last fall, but the temps were just too cold, well below the rating of those bags.



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[jt4]

No, I did the stone glacier bag last year but not in a head to head. I started to compare it to the western mountaineering bag on the live muzzleloader hunt I did last fall, but the temps were just too cold, well below the rating of those bags.



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What'd the temperatures get down to and what did you use for a bag when it was below the ratings for the WM and SG bags?

 

[robby denning]

What'd the temperatures get down to and what did you use for a bag when it was below the ratings for the WM and SG bags?

single digits, I put the SG inside the WM.

 

[hmbleservant]

I am also interested in the comparison between the Stone Glacier chillkoot (or whatever it is called) and the kuiu when compared to the WM badger.

I understand that WM has been THE standard forever. I am in the market for a bag now and am kinda wondering if the SG and KUIU bags (or any others "modern" designs) are a more refined product that will soon have a reputation that surpasses WM in the way of weight/warmth/features.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this, Robby, and others that currently have a keen eye on these matters.

 

[robby denning]

I am also interested in the comparison between the Stone Glacier chillkoot (or whatever it is called) and the kuiu when compared to the WM badger.

I understand that WM has been THE standard forever. I am in the market for a bag now and am kinda wondering if the SG and KUIU bags (or any others "modern" designs) are a more refined product that will soon have a reputation that surpasses WM in the way of weight/warmth/features.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this, Robby, and others that currently have a keen eye on these matters.

The Chilkoot went lower than both these bags in last year's testing, but I was on a cot with a mattress (foam/air) not an air mattress, so I suspect that might have been the difference...

Stone Glacier Chilkoot 15° Sleeping Bag Review

Robby subjects the new Stone Glacier Chilkoot 15° Sleeping bag to everthing a typical mountain hunt might dish out, including 0.42" of rain on the down bag.

www.rokslide.com

 

[couesarizona]

Thanks for the testing Robby! I’ve had my Kuiu 15 degree since 2015. I live in southeastern AZ and it rarely gets in single digits. On our November elk hunts it will get into the low teens. I’m a warm sleeper and paired with a x-therm pad I’ve never been cold. My only gripe is the zipper snags every damn time I zip it up or down. I’ve never ripped the material and it’s held up really good to all the hunts over the years. Thanks again!

 

[robby denning]

Thanks for the testing Robby! I’ve had my Kuiu 15 degree since 2015. I live in southeastern AZ and it rarely gets in single digits. On our November elk hunts it will get into the low teens. I’m a warm sleeper and paired with a x-therm pad I’ve never been cold. My only gripe is the zipper snags every damn time I zip it up or down. I’ve never ripped the material and it’s held up really good to all the hunts over the years. Thanks again!

Yes, same experience with the zipper for me, been a learning curve for sure.

Thanks for chiming in about the durability because that’s obviously something I’m not gonna be able to test with just a few nights on the bag.


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[unclericco]

Thanks a lot for this test and write up! I love my Badger but I gotta say I’m not real wild about the continuous baffles. Would rather have it evenly distributed through the bag by design but I’m sure opinions vary on the subject

 

[sneaky]

Thanks a lot for this test and write up! I love my Badger but I gotta say I’m not real wild about the continuous baffles. Would rather have it evenly distributed through the bag by design but I’m sure opinions vary on the subject

They only do that on their cold weather bags. A 15 degree bag is considered a 3 season bag. You have to get to the below zero rated bags to get the V block side baffles that keep the down from getting shifted. The point of continuous baffles on the Badger is to extend its usability into warmer temps by shifting down beneath you so you don't overheat, or shifting it to the top to stay warmer in colder temps. It also has a longer zipper where you can open it like a quilt. A block baffled bag you have fewer options for temperature regulation. It takes very little time to move the down around in any of their continuous baffled designs.

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[unclericco]

They only do that on their cold weather bags. A 15 degree bag is considered a 3 season bag. You have to get to the below zero rated bags to get the V block side baffles that keep the down from getting shifted. The point of continuous baffles on the Badger is to extend its usability into warmer temps by shifting down beneath you so you don't overheat, or shifting it to the top to stay warmer in colder temps. It also has a longer zipper where you can open it like a quilt. A block baffled bag you have fewer options for temperature regulation. It takes very little time to move the down around in any of their continuous baffled designs.

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Yeah I know now but haven’t tested it out yet since I was not able to sleep in it the last time I used it. The reason I was not warm was because all of the down in my bag was on top and it was maybe 40 degrees outside also. I noticed no insulation under me as being the issue.

 

[sneaky]

Yeah I know now but haven’t tested it out yet since I was not able to sleep in it the last time I used it. The reason I was not warm was because all of the down in my bag was on top and it was maybe 40 degrees outside also. I noticed no insulation under me as being the issue.

What pad were you using? A good pad will make even a mediocre bag feel warmer. A poorly insulated pad will make even a great bag feel cold. At least there's an industry standard for testing and rating pads now.

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[sneaky]

Sleeping Pad R-Values of 2024 - SectionHiker.com

A backpacking or camping sleeping pad's R-value measures its resistance to heat loss to the ground w

sectionhiker.com

Here's a table of the pads that have been tested and rated so far. I'm sure they'll update the list as the others get tested.

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[deadwolf]

As much as I’d like to try out an SG Chilkoot bag, the 60” shoulder measurement wouldn’t work well for me. The WM Versalite at 62” is possible or WM Badger at 65” and only 3 ozs heavier than the SG likely will be my choice. And KUIU doesn’t even know when their 15 degree bag will be ordered or back in stock so that ones out for me too.

I used a WM Summerlight 32 degree last year and definitely longed for something warmer!!

Appreciate all the reviews Robby!


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[unclericco]

What pad were you using? A good pad will make even a mediocre bag feel warmer. A poorly insulated pad will make even a great bag feel cold. At least there's an industry standard for testing and rating pads now.

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I was using an air mattress on that trip. That was probably part of the problem? I have a pad for back packing but I can’t remember the name of it. I’ve not been cold while using the pad. But I’m thinking not having enough down under me was causing issues.

 

[sneaky]

I was using an air mattress on that trip. That was probably part of the problem? I have a pad for back packing but I can’t remember the name of it. I’ve not been cold while using the pad. But I’m thinking not having enough down under me was causing issues.

I can guarantee it wasn't from not having down underneath you. Down beneath you just gets flattened and doesn't loft so you get no insulation value from it. Your pad is half of your sleep equation. Just as important as your bag. Unfortunately good pads are expensive, but well worth it for the sleep.

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[unclericco]

I can guarantee it wasn't from not having down underneath you. Down beneath you just gets flattened and doesn't loft so you get no insulation value from it. Your pad is half of your sleep equation. Just as important as your bag. Unfortunately good pads are expensive, but well worth it for the sleep.

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Well there wasn’t much down on the bottom at all so I’m going to try putting more down on the bottom next time and see if that helps. I checked my sleeping pad and it’s the gray Neo air X-therm pad. I haven’t been cold sleeping on it but I don’t want to use it in every situation either

 

[zacattack]

Well there wasn’t much down on the bottom at all so I’m going to try putting more down on the bottom next time and see if that helps. I checked my sleeping pad and it’s the gray Neo air X-therm pad. I haven’t been cold sleeping on it but I don’t want to use it in every situation either

He’s saying you want less down on the bottom and more on top. Since you crush the down underneath you, and you get no loft and therefore no insulation from the down on the bottom. That’s the main appeal I believe of quilts.