Kryptic or kuiu Rain gear

[gelton]

pit zips are great and i dont buy items without them but they arent the end all be all.

I could agree with that, I am only pointing out that at times it becomes absurd focusing on mvtr ratings that measure microscopic pores when you have an eight inch zipper that you can open up. Especially when you realize that Patagonia sent the same piece of fabric to 6 different companies and got six different results. They even sent the same piece of fabric back to the same company and received a different result. Everyone shouldn't hang their hats on an mvtr rating.

 

[gelton]

Also, just to clarify my position on the original question since looking back at my previous posts it might appear as if I am a Kuiu hater and a Kryptek lover. In fact, if I hadn't gone over-budget on a Kifaru DT1 with loads of add ons my considerations of Kuiu would be stronger but price point is an issue. Also, I cant be a Kuiu hater because I have never owned any of their gear. I prefer the highlander pattern and think it is slightly better, not to mention it matches my DT1 (poser?). Throw in the issues with MVTR ratings and their reliability plus the fact that I have a Cabelas close by where I can drop in and try the kryptek products on and who do you think will get the nod? I just have issues ordering layering clothing online without being able to try it on. I am sure that the new kuiu stuff is awesome and I am a little jealous of those of you that are picking it up but for this year, for me, its Kryptek, perhaps Kuiu will get the nod next time.

 

[stephen b]

Alright guys,

We deleted all the negative posts and hope to keep things on track....please

Makes sense- but now the Ron Burgundy video is gone. I thought that was very positive- in that it was funny.

But now it probably would just loose it's context and seem out of place.

 

[Aron Snyder]

As the article gelton posted shows, the breath-ability rating can change dramatically from one test to another....FOR ALL FABRICS, and most companies will take the nest #'s tested and stick that on the hang tag. There's nothing wrong with that, but I can say that I've seen the actual #'s on the hang tag cut almost in half during 3rd party testing.

So to answer the original question, the 2013 Kaldo rain jacket did test at 20/15 (like 2012), but it also tested lower then that. The owners of Kryptek decided to post the lowest # tested on the hang tag, as they did not want to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. The large fluctuation in the breath-ability/waterproof rating is nothing new for any rain gear, but you can definitely get some "smoke and mirror" #'s. I'm not saying that Kuiu, Kryptek or FirstLite is doing this, but I am saying that when you test them all in field conditions, it is very hard (actually impossible) to see a difference in some categories.

A good example of this is eVent, and as most know, that is my preferred material for bivy sacks, as I get little to no condensation when using them. Having said that, when I've tested every other bivy sack/material, I get condensation (4 different materials total), but those materials that were tested all rate there shell at a different rating. Hopefully this is making sense, as I'm trying to get a point across that when I tested 5 materials for bivy sacks, 4 of them got the same result, but all 4 of those had VERY different ratings....and one material (eVent) tested much better than the other 4, but eVent actually had the same rating as a couple of the others.


So I do find it hard to believe that there is ONE "do all" rain gear for everyone, as they all have down-falls. This is what I was hoping to get across in my first post when talking about the Chugach and Kaldo.

I used the Chugach for a season and loved it, but it wasn't as durable as the Kaldo (for me anyway), however the Chugach was lighter and had a better breath-ability rating. The CG also compacts down a bit smaller than the Kaldo, but the Kaldo was quieter and allowed me to use it as an outer layer during bow hunting (that let me drop my soft shell).

None of what I posted is telling anyone what to buy, but more of what I found in my personal use....but that's my own needs, and what I found could just as easily point you to Kuiu (lighter weight/packs smaller), as both are great products.

I'm bringing the Kaldo to the Colorado backpacking trip this weekend, so some of the guys going can take a look at it and judge for themselves.

I also think a comparative review between Kuiu, Kryptek, FirstLite and Sitka should be done (by someone other than me) and someone that has no affiliation with any clothing company or Rokslide.

A few guys come to mind, but I'm all ears if someone has a good candidate for testing .

Hopefully this made some sense and helps people spend their money wisely, as none of this stuff is cheap.

 

[pyroducksx3]

Someone that lives in western Washington where it hasn't stopped raining for weeks

 

[fillthefreezer]

A few guys come to mind, but I'm all ears if someone has a good candidate for testing .

Hopefully this made some sense and helps people spend their money wisely, as none of this stuff is cheap.

great post! for me i really feel like 2 jackets would suit me well, one for high country that rarely gets used so is light and packs small and one thats quiet and breathes exceptionally so i can wear it for bear and blacktail.
crap, and elk, forgot im hunting wetside for them too this year..

 

[Racethesunset]

So being so breathable does it not function as well for as a wind blocker? I like the fact that both my Chugach jacket and Koldo jacket block the wind pretty darn good, but being that this is "4X more breathable" than many other rain jackets I was wondering if it would be. Be great if it was.

It takes pretty gusty conditions to penetrate water proof fabrics. I would be interested to see how much penetration a 50mph gets on the new stuff. Wearing the Chugach wind doesn't affect warmth for me (granted I am talking gusts, not hurricane force glacier winds), except around openings.

 

[luke moffat]

great post! for me i really feel like 2 jackets would suit me well, one for high country that rarely gets used so is light and packs small and one thats quiet and breathes exceptionally so i can wear it for bear and blacktail.
crap, and elk, forgot im hunting wetside for them too this year..

Thats where I'm at with it....my Koldo will be my alder/devils club buster for a lot of my hunts where as either the Kryptek Posiden or the Kuiu Chugach will be my alpine gear where busting miles and miles of alders isn't projected as much But the Posiden will have some serious proving to do as the Chugach jacket has held up very well for how light it is...the pants...well I'm on my 2nd set, but Kuiu took care of me so can't complain too much there. Time will tell I guess.

 

[Racethesunset]

In terms of durability, which of you have had to replace newer 'ultralight' rain pants? What part failed? Were you just using them, or base jumping?

 

[fillthefreezer]

In terms of durability, which of you have had to replace newer 'ultralight' rain pants? What part failed? Were you just using them, or base jumping?

what would you consider UL?
my rain pants are 13oz and going strong, no damage to speak of. but im also realistic on my expectations of them. i dont wear them in the nastiest spots here in western wa as berry bushes would shred them. but alders and pushing through reprod plus alpine trips theyve been fine.

 

[Bob]

I also think a comparative review between Kuiu, Kryptek, FirstLite and Sitka should be done (by someone other than me) and someone that has no affiliation with any clothing company or Rokslide.

A few guys come to mind, but I'm all ears if someone has a good candidate for testing .

Hopefully this made some sense and helps people spend their money wisely, as none of this stuff is cheap.

I would like to see this review! My normal hunting season is spent in a tree, bowhunting whitetails...but I am setting up an Alpine hunt on POW and a Northern California hunt and hopefully more mountain/backcountry hunts. I thought I had settled on Sitka for clothing, mainly because I can get use out of it during my normal hunting season. However, researching packs, boots, sleeping bags, etc...I learned of Kuiu & Kryptec....Maybe buying clothing for multi-use isn't the way to go...??

 

[Yellowknife]

I also think a comparative review between Kuiu, Kryptek, FirstLite and Sitka should be done (by someone other than me) and someone that has no affiliation with any clothing company or Rokslide.

A few guys come to mind, but I'm all ears if someone has a good candidate for testing .

I think it would be very difficult for any one person to do comparison rain gear testing on more than two sets at a time unless they basically lived outside in an extremely wet climate and were far geekier than most about testing things. Might be easier to farm it out to a couple people if you put this together. KUIU vs Kryptek and FirstLite Vs Sitka or something like that. Or better yet, something like HD Yukon vs Koldo or Stormfront and UL Dewpoint vs Chugach so the different categories can be compared.

I agree that the breathability ratings are over played. Actual comfort while wearing it seems to have little correlation to what's on the tag.

In terms of durability, which of you have had to replace newer 'ultralight' rain pants? What part failed? Were you just using them, or base jumping?

I do my best to be careful, but the first weak spots on any UL raingear is the seat and cuffs with my uses. Shale and mud chews them up in short order.

Yk

 

[Becca]

It takes pretty gusty conditions to penetrate water proof fabrics. I would be interested to see how much penetration a 50mph gets on the new stuff. Wearing the Chugach wind doesn't affect warmth for me (granted I am talking gusts, not hurricane force glacier winds), except around openings.

I don't have any scientific data, but I definetely feel like my Westcomb eVent rain jacket is significantly "breezier" than less breathable raingear I have used. In stiff winds I find I get a little chilly, and I feel that some of my less breathable rain jackets served as better windbreakers than the better breathing eVent jacket. Keep in mind I chill easily, and so the simple solution for me has been to use a UL windshirt from integral designs as my windbreaker, sometimes even wear it underneath my raincoat if its pouring and blowing.

Everything is a trade off, and I like the breath ability of the eVent for hiking all day in the rain. Like others have stated, the different jackets end up serving different purposes. For the all the different activities I do in the varying conditions I do them, I doubt there is a single jacket that does everything perfectly.

I really hate to be cold, and I hate being wet and cold even more.

 

[luke moffat]

In terms of durability, which of you have had to replace newer 'ultralight' rain pants? What part failed? Were you just using them, or base jumping?

Like FTF said what do you consider "ultralight" I have Marmot Precips I've shredded pretty quickly, but also have had a pair of Cabelas Dry plus rain pants that weigh in at 12 oz last for 5 years of hard use.

 

[Rizzy]

With the new Kuiu fabric out, I think the comparison between the various manufactures is going to get interesting. Thats assuming that its as breathable as they say

The specifications on the different rain gear are a good starting point, but the real life use in varied conditions is usually going to be a different story. I imagine the relative humidity would have a noticeable effect on the breath-ability (or at least the apparent breath-ability) of the gear.

I have the chugach pant and I can say that it breaths a whole lot better than my cabelas polyurethane coated top...lol
I was having to take the top off and on during my recent scouting trip, but my legs where fine.

 

[gelton]

I also think a comparative review between Kuiu, Kryptek, FirstLite and Sitka should be done (by someone other than me) and someone that has no affiliation with any clothing company or Rokslide.

A few guys come to mind, but I'm all ears if someone has a good candidate for testing .

Hopefully this made some sense and helps people spend their money wisely, as none of this stuff is cheap.

I'll be your huckleberry! What better than an mvtr sceptic that lives in texas and can rate breathability of rain gear over 6 mile hikes in 100 degree weather that is also a newbie to the forum. Hell I would even be willing to video the whole thing. Will work for free gear

 

[Racethesunset]

Like FTF said what do you consider "ultralight" I have Marmot Precips I've shredded pretty quickly, but also have had a pair of Cabelas Dry plus rain pants that weigh in at 12 oz last for 5 years of hard use.

UL would be a mass where there is clear delineation between UL and multi-layer, or even just thicker, fabric layups.

This would be in the <14oz range with water resistance at 20,000mm and breathability at 20,000 g/m²/24hrs as a baseline. Precips, Versa-lite, Chugach, there are a dozen others.

That's interesting about the Cabela's Dry Plus longevity.

 

[Aron Snyder]

Several of the UL rain gear options won't meat your criteria. The Precip, for example, is a 15/12 rating, but a great options for sure.

UL would be a mass where there is clear delineation between UL and multi-layer, or even just thicker, fabric layups.

This would be in the <14oz range with water resistance at 20,000mm and breathability at 20,000 g/m²/24hrs as a baseline. Precips, Versa-lite, Chugach, there are a dozen others.

That's interesting about the Cabela's Dry Plus longevity.

 

[First Lite]

We believe the numbers are a decent tool for the consumer. While there is no substitute for actually wearing the fabrics in the field, Its a benchmark for getting an idea of how something will work. But realize there may be variables from lab to lab. Take the printing process into account, for instance our Stormtight shell tested at 39.5k before printing and then went down to 31.5k after printing we sent the stormtight to exactly one lab and that was their finding. At the end of the day the numbers are only part of the picture when designing a jacket. How the jacket fits, if where and how it is vented, quality of zippers and seams can have just as big of an impact as numbers alone

 

[armyjoe]

We believe the numbers are a decent tool for the consumer. While there is no substitute for actually wearing the fabrics in the field, Its a benchmark for getting an idea of how something will work. But realize there may be variables from lab to lab. Take the printing process into account, for instance our Stormtight shell tested at 39.5k before printing and then went down to 31.5k after printing we sent the stormtight to exactly one lab and that was their finding. At the end of the day the numbers are only part of the picture when designing a jacket. How the jacket fits, if where and how it is vented, quality of zippers and seams can have just as big of an impact as numbers alone

Perfectly stated! Couldn't agree more about the numbers