Knight UL .45 209 Primer bulge/failure

[Fish_on!]

Hello and thanks in advance. I have a knight .45 cal that I am shooting 75 grains weight BH and 240 gr Maximus bullets in. Using Winchester primers. I have about 50 shots through it and I am having issues with the primers bulging into the firing pin hole and getting stuck. Requires re firing the rifle to get the bulged primer out. After yesterday, I realized that the ones that come out on their own are failing as shown in the attached pick. What’s going on here and how do I fix it? Seams to shoot ok and season is about a week away so I am in a bind with respect to time. Primers that do not fail are clean. Obviously lots of blowback with the failed ones. @sabotloader

 

[ENCORE]

Not a Knight shooter but, someone will be along soon.
Keep the carbon out of the flash channel.

 

[sabotloader]

I am some what concerned about the looks of that primer. What does the nose and the sides of the primer look like.

They should look something like this - clean on the sides...

The first thing I would check is exactly what Encore suggested to you. How many shots have you put through the BP and have you cleaned the flash channel with a 5/32" bit as he shows.

 

[Fish_on!]

I am some what concerned about the looks of that primer. What does the nose and the sides of the primer look like.

They should look something like this - clean on the sides...

The first thing I would check is exactly what Encore suggested to you. How many shots have you put through the BP and have you cleaned the flash channel with a 5/32" bit as he shows.

I tried cleaning the flash channel after the first time I noticed the primers getting stuck. The next time I went out I noticed the primers basically exploding. Here is a couple more pics of spent primers. Could they be crushing too much? I haven’t measured the crush on them. There is about 50 shots through the gun.

 

[sabotloader]

To me your pictures indicate that you do have a seal at the base of the primer and the seat in the breech plug.

So now I am still concerned with the flash channel! I really wish you has a Lehigh after market BP so you could remove the vent liner and visually inspect the channel... again assuming you are drill with a 5/32" bit all the wat to the top of the vent liner. You may need to drill with an 1/8" bit followed by the 5/32".

But... as I look at your primers I am concerned that you might be getting to much "crush" and the hammer is is piercing the the primer.

If you can do and experiment. Load and shoot 5 primers in the garage or outside and get a picture of the top of those primers and the nose and sides.

There is another experiment you could try.... remove the hammer assembly from the bolt. Install the bolt back in the rifle - push it closed and just release the bolt handle - it should drop right to the bottom of its travel.

Next insert a few primers in the nose and release the handle - it should dead drop at least 2/3rds of the way down before it stops, maybe even more. Then you will have to press the the bolt handle down from that point. It should not take a lot of force to get it down but it will not be light either.

Really kind of curious about the results.

Do you have any other primers other than the Winchesters?

O - one last point make sure the BP is screwed all the way in snuggly.

Another question... do you have an adjustable powder volume measure?

This is really a dumb question/thought - check the powder end of the BP is there a 'vent liner' installed in the plug? The hole through is should be very small.

 

[Fish_on!]

To me your pictures indicate that you do have a seal at the base of the primer and the seat in the breech plug.

So now I am still concerned with the flash channel! I really wish you has a Lehigh after market BP so you could remove the vent liner and visually inspect the channel... again assuming you are drill with a 5/32" bit all the wat to the top of the vent liner. You may need to drill with an 1/8" bit followed by the 5/32".

But... as I look at your primers I am concerned that you might be getting to much "crush" and the hammer is is piercing the the primer.

If you can do and experiment. Load and shoot 5 primers in the garage or outside and get a picture of the top of those primers and the nose and sides.

There is another experiment you could try.... remove the hammer assembly from the bolt. Install the bolt back in the rifle - push it closed and just release the bolt handle - it should drop right to the bottom of its travel.

Next insert a few primers in the nose and release the handle - it should dead drop at least 2/3rds of the way down before it stops, maybe even more. Then you will have to press the the bolt handle down from that point. It should not take a lot of force to get it down but it will not be light either.

Really kind of curious about the results.

Do you have any other primers other than the Winchesters?

O - one last point make sure the BP is screwed all the way in snuggly.

Another question... do you have an adjustable powder volume measure?

This is really a dumb question/thought - check the powder end of the BP is there a 'vent liner' installed in the plug? The hole through is should be very small.

I think we are in business. I had used a 3/32” to clean the flash channel. Went with the 1/8” which was hard to get going followed by the 5/32” bits. Haven’t shot but it makes sense. Smaller hole with the same charge equals more pressure. Hopefully this works.

Thanks again,
Ben

 

[sabotloader]

That is a great first start - I really that answer your problems. Now I am anxious for you to try it. I still have a small concern.

 

[Fish_on!]

That is a great first start - I really that answer your problems. Now I am anxious for you to try it. I still have a small concern.

Ok, so I did some trouble shooting and I believe in addition to the dirty flash hole, I am also crushing the primers too much. See pictures below with pre and crushed dimensions for five primers. It’s my understanding that the goal is .002” of crush. Is this correct? I am at about .011”.

 

[Fish_on!]

That is a great first start - I really that answer your problems. Now I am anxious for you to try it. I still have a small concern.

Also, fired them to show the pin impression.

 

[Rich M]

My dad likes to load high pressure. That’s what this seems like to me. High pressure.

 

[sabotloader]

Also, fired them to show the pin impression.

Again from way out here in the west it really does appear that you might be crushing them much more than necessary. A couple of them really appear to be flattened and have a fairly deep pin impression.

If you has some other primers, the Winchester is the longest on the market and does a fairly large difference from primer to primer in length. I wish it were the old days when they were actually made by Winchester - but times change. Other primers like regular CCI's - Rem's and others are shorter.

This chart give some examples

Again with the hammer assembly removed and closing the bolt on a live primer you should not feel any pressure on the handle until it is a little over 2 third's of way closed.

 

[Fish_on!]

Update: ended up shooting three shots through it after cleaning the flash hole. 1 of the three primers got stuck and required an additional strike to get it out. No failure on the three.

I was at sportsman’s and they had a 209 conversion kit so I thought what the hell let’s try a different bolt. Got home and measured my existing breach plug and the new one. As expected they were basically the same dimension. Put the new bolt in to measure crush with it and I was only getting .001 crush. So, I have a bolt that is on the long side and now one that is on the short side. Didn’t shoot it yet with the shorter bolt but I imagine it will have blowback. I will shoot the one I know works and gets me on target this season. Wish the bolt tolerances weren’t so far off but that is where I believe I am getting the excessive primer crush from. I’ll probably get the bestill plug dialed in next year but it shoots plenty good out to 200 yds as is.

Thanks again for the troubleshooting help on this.