Killing Elk- Caliber vs Caliber

[marshland_max]

270, 280, 30-06, 7 mm Rem Mag, and 300 Win Mag. All excellent.

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[MTElkChaser]

So my one main question is what is it that kills elk most efficiently? Is it the bullet weight/diameter? I ask this because so many people say they want a 30cal pill for elk. If you look at ballistics you will find in many 300wsm or wm loads you are getting less down range impact velocity and energy than smaller calibers with higher BCs. Why shoot a 180gr or similar out of a 300 if you can get more down range energy out of a non-magnum with a lighter bullet that has a superior BC? So why exactly is a 30cal considered the round most people want?

There are A LOT of calibers that will kill elk efficiently. Energy delivered down range is what kills them.

The reason most people are recommending a .30 caliber is that it usually delivers more energy at further distances. You mentioned out to 700 yards so that’s probably why you’re getting the .30 caliber recommendation from so many people. My 6.5 CM will kill elk - no problem, but I have to be mindful of the distance.

I hunt elk with a .300 Win Mag and use a Hornady 200gr ELD-X. At 500 yards, it still delivers over 2,000 ft/lbs of energy which is way more than enough to kill an elk efficiently, if I put it in the vitals.

Shoot the caliber YOU feel most comfortable with. Take recoil and everything else into your consideration, then just know the yardage limitations of that particular caliber/load and you’ll be just fine. There are so many great choices in caliber and bullet designs these days that it’s hard to go wrong. Good luck!

 

[howl]

This reminds me of the fella who flopped down prone with a slug gun, and promptly broke both his nose and collar bone. It doesn't add to the discussion, but it does make me chuckle.

 

[204guy]

This reminds me of the fella who flopped down prone with a slug gun, and promptly broke both his nose and collar bone. It doesn't add to the discussion, but it does make me chuckle.

That's why you practice with a lighter recoiling rifle. Everyone knows you won't even feel that magnum shooting at an animal. How bad would it suck to try and pack out a bull with a broken collar bone.

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[rayporter]

man it would suck trying to cut up anything with a broken collar bone - the nose and the cut eye would be bad enough.

 

[tmwtrfwler]

I bought a 300wm and had a brake put on it. i shot it a lot and then got the bug to get a 280AI in the same gun. I shot it a bunch. Then I realized I'd put myself in a position where I had to choose which to take on my first elk hunt. From that point on I shot both a ton on the same days. That was as close as I could come to have a control and know for sure which I shot better. Ultimately I shot the 280AI better. That's what I took and I shot an elk on the run at 300 yards. Stopped him in his tracks as the 150gr Nosler Accubond LR passed through both lungs. I put another in him just in case and he dropped in his place dead as a hammer. He was dead on the first shot but everyone said to shoot until they fall.

My buddy shot his the day before at 300 with his 308. Elk took 15 steps and fell over dead. Double lunged him too.

I guess my point is shoot whatever caliber you can shoot better. Put the bullet where it needs to go and have fun. Placement is vital (pun intended).
I do agree with the data that some 30's carry more energy longer, etc.. I also know we all prepare for 700 yards and most of the time it's 300 and in.

 

[Josh Wright]

A little real world experience:

I've killed 3 bulls with a rifle.
#1- an 8 yard shot with a 300 wm.
#2 - a 60 yard chest shot with a 26 nosler. 142 ablr. Dead in the scope. Partial bullet was found at back of rear quarter embedded in the skin.
#3- due to a Swarovski scope failure on my 26, I used my wife's Kimber mountain ascent in a 6.5 creedmoor. I am using 127 grain barnes lrx in that gun. I killed my biggest bull to date this year at 186 yards. The first bullet went through both lungs. I'm sure that's all it needed as it was hunching over. I put a second in the high shoulder bc I didn't want it to go straight down hill opposite direction in the dark timber.

I also killed a muley at 200 this year that ran 8 yards after a double lung shot.

The wound channels were both very good with the lrx and jellied the lungs.

I shoot a lot and would take a shot broadside with an elk with that 6.5 cm out to 550 with no hesitation.

Imo, it's about bullet, the shooter, and game positioning.

Personally, I love the 26 nosler bc I believe it can kill anything in North America walking with devastating results.

 

[Burnt Reynolds]

It was just a few weeks ago I thought I was all set with my 300wsm. I shoot it well from field positions and am happy spending a day behind the scope blasting rocks, steel, clay pigeons etc. I also have a suppressed 223 bolt gun that gets shot like crazy. After having success in preceding years at 400+ yards with lessor calibers on elk and other game I decided I "needed more range" thus the 300wsm found a spot in my safe because I felt it was the best balance between recoil and velocity/terminal performance with available range beyond my skillset. Carried it on my elk hunt this year happily and passed up a few spikes and a raghorn holding out for a wallhanger that never materialized. There was recently another thread here where Formidolosus and others were consistent with the smaller cal practice practice practice mantra. So last week I bought an M70 featherweight 270 Winchester because I've always wanted one and wanted to give the aforementioned an honest go.

As of right now I'm trying to figure out what a good price to sell my 300wsm would be. Never have I taken a brand new gun out of the box, set it up and started banging away with as much accuracy right off the bat as I did with the 270. With the 300 wsm I shot consistently about .9 - 1.0 moa out to around 600 yards and figured that's about as good a shot as I am and that was good enough because it was as good or better than any preceding rifle shooting I'd experienced. After stacking 5 rounds into .4 moa several times in row yesterday at 400 yards with what feels like zero recoil I was laughing my ass off at myself at all the money I've spent over the years on uber lightweight or other high end setups (magnum and non-magnum alike) when the little winchester does it all for a hell of a lot less money that I can now spend on ammo and tags. The irony is that I'm like "that's it? No time money and anguish trying to figure this out??" Rather than study ballistic charts and endlessly play what-if scenarios in my ballistic app, I can study maps. I almost don't even know what to do with myself. My kids are "Dad, you're back!" lol.

When I bought the 270 I also bought two vx3i scopes, both 3.5-10x40 one with a duplex/cds, the other capped with a boone & crockett reticle. I mounted the b&c scope. Because I "need" something to worry about I'm pondering a scope swap. In reality I'll probably buy another 270 fwt and mount the duplex to it and be done forever. Two identical rifles to take with me on every hunt. Sounds good to me...

 

[elkduds]

I too found happiness w 270 as an alternative to magnums for elk. Trajectory of 270 w 140 gr is the same as my 7 RM w 160 gr. That matters when you need fewer #s to remember. Both have Timney triggers. Both feel equal in recoil, as the 270 weighs 3# less than the 7. Neither has a brake. They shoot the same, triggers feel the same, one is much easier to carry. KISS.

 

[awaldro7]

This photo is a 7mm 160gr accubond vs a .308 180gr accubond. I load the 7mm in my 7mm rem mag and the .308 in my dads 300 wsm. Both rifles are shooting very similar speeds (around 3100). I have a hard time thinking that either one placed in the same spot will have a noticeable different affect on game. My dad and I have surely not seen a difference. The 7mm rem mag does have a little bit less recoil.

 

[sneaky]

My boss shoots nothing but a 270. However, he shoots the cheapest ammo he can find in it. He said "I can kill elk out to a 1000yds with it". I looked up the ballistics on his ammo... he's at 829ft lbs at 400 yards or so. Every time he says that, I remind him "not with that ammo". Of course, he says his daughter's 6.5CM will kill them out to 1500. I give up.

It was just a few weeks ago I thought I was all set with my 300wsm. I shoot it well from field positions and am happy spending a day behind the scope blasting rocks, steel, clay pigeons etc. I also have a suppressed 223 bolt gun that gets shot like crazy. After having success in preceding years at 400+ yards with lessor calibers on elk and other game I decided I "needed more range" thus the 300wsm found a spot in my safe because I felt it was the best balance between recoil and velocity/terminal performance with available range beyond my skillset. Carried it on my elk hunt this year happily and passed up a few spikes and a raghorn holding out for a wallhanger that never materialized. There was recently another thread here where Formidolosus and others were consistent with the smaller cal practice practice practice mantra. So last week I bought an M70 featherweight 270 Winchester because I've always wanted one and wanted to give the aforementioned an honest go.

As of right now I'm trying to figure out what a good price to sell my 300wsm would be. Never have I taken a brand new gun out of the box, set it up and started banging away with as much accuracy right off the bat as I did with the 270. With the 300 wsm I shot consistently about .9 - 1.0 moa out to around 600 yards and figured that's about as good a shot as I am and that was good enough because it was as good or better than any preceding rifle shooting I'd experienced. After stacking 5 rounds into .4 moa several times in row yesterday at 400 yards with what feels like zero recoil I was laughing my ass off at myself at all the money I've spent over the years on uber lightweight or other high end setups (magnum and non-magnum alike) when the little winchester does it all for a hell of a lot less money that I can now spend on ammo and tags. The irony is that I'm like "that's it? No time money and anguish trying to figure this out??" Rather than study ballistic charts and endlessly play what-if scenarios in my ballistic app, I can study maps. I almost don't even know what to do with myself. My kids are "Dad, you're back!" lol.

When I bought the 270 I also bought two vx3i scopes, both 3.5-10x40 one with a duplex/cds, the other capped with a boone & crockett reticle. I mounted the b&c scope. Because I "need" something to worry about I'm pondering a scope swap. In reality I'll probably buy another 270 fwt and mount the duplex to it and be done forever. Two identical rifles to take with me on every hunt. Sounds good to me...

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[DangerRanger]

Those people are why so many old timers hate the 6.5 CM. Its not the cartridges fault that an imbecile uses it.

 

[Burnt Reynolds]

lol, that's ridiculous. according to my calculator the 129 grain Barnes LRX is 1800fps at 600 yards. Plenty of range for me, ain't now way it's a 1000 yard elk slapper.

 

[sneaky]

lol, that's ridiculous. according to my calculator the 129 grain Barnes LRX is 1800fps at 600 yards. Plenty of range for me, ain't now way it's a 1000 yard elk slapper.

Check out the ballistic profile of his loads. 270 Game Shok 150gr. I bet I could catch those in my hat at 1000yds lol.

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[marshland_max]

Check out the ballistic profile of his loads. 270 Game Shok 150gr. I bet I could catch those in my hat at 1000yds lol.

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Well, you said what I was thinking

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[treillw]

I just wanted to chime in a little to talk about the recoil of "the magnums". I have a Cooper Model 92 in 300 win mag - lightest factory 300 out there to my knowledge (5.75 pounds). I'm shooting 215 Berger reloads with 74 grains of H1000 typically and have loaded them as hot as 77 grains. The gun has a brake.

The recoil of the gun is very tolerable loaded with 74 grains of powder, but starts to thump a bit harder up at 76 & 77 grains. 74 grains is the sweet spot for accuracy, so I haven't shot many hotter loads.

My wife who is a beginner loves to shoot the gun. She is 5'-3" and weighs practically half as much as I do. She is pretty much just as accurate with the gun as I am shooting prone. She harvested her first elk at 260 yards with it last year.

The recoil isn't bad at all. That being said, I don't think she would be too happy if I were to remove the brake. I haven't shot it that way, but I plan on it at some point.

The brake does pose challenges while hunting - we use electronic ear muffs and sound gear ear plugs. My ears are screwed up from shooting my .243 without hearing protection hunting. IMO, you should be wearing hearing protection no matter the caliber or brake status. In one hunting season I developed tinnitus from my .243 and hunting with buddies shooting unbraked rifles. I also like to play my guitar too loud, so that might also help. I usually put the plugs in if I'm up walking around and could jump something. My ears might have to take one for the team if I jump a big 6x6 without plugs in...

Regarding the caliber discussion. I shot a bull with my .243 that took one step sideways, laid down, and went to sleep. My wife's cow that she hit perfectly with the 300 ran about 40 yards. Clearly I've upgraded to a 300 for elk, but a .243 will do the trick if you put it in the right spot.

 

[Whisky]

I wish everybody had the opportunity to try out and hunt with a suppressor. For me anyways they take recoil and flinching 100% out of the equation. I plain shoot a lot better with them. Well worth the added weight and length if you are able to swing it. I also saw two animals die this year that would not have happened had the shooters rifle not been suppressed. After some (unfortunate) misses, the animals stayed put long enough for adequate follow up shots.

Now, I would be real curious to screw an Ultra 7 on the end of that Model 92 300wm and take her for a spin. I think it would be fairly pleasant to shoot. And carry.

 

[treillw]

I have thought the same thing Whisky. I might have sensitive ears or something, but I was at the range for about 7 days in a row working up a load before this hunting season. I shot close to 100 shots with my braked rifle and wouldn't be surprised if everybody around me shot 10 times that the whole time I was there. My ears didn't feel the best for a few days after that despite having plugs and muffs on and trying to avoid the muzzle blast of others.

I would love to put a suppressor on the M92. Trouble in my mind is that there isn't much meat on the end of the barrel for the suppressor to thread onto. The threads are 1/2-28, which doesn't give you a whole lot with a .308 hole going through there.

I just called thunderbeast and they said that they could custom install a brake on it with 9/16 threads that would be safe to shoot. The lady said it's not safe with 1/2" threads.

The thing that I would worry about is the thin threaded portion of the barrel getting bent when you accidentally bang the 7" long suppressor off of something. The root thread diameter is .417", subtract a .308" hole and your left with a .055" wall to resist the bending. I'm no structural engine....wait, yes I am... that isn't a whole lot of metal to resist bending.

You think Cooper would have thought about that and used 9/16" threads. It still half worries me about bending the end of the barrel with the 2" brake installed. If the gun would fall and land right on the brake, I'm sure something getting screwed up isn't out of the realm of possibilities. I don't know the OD of the barrel, but maybe there wouldn't be enough of a shoulder for the brake to butt up against with 9/16" threads - maybe that is their reasoning.

 

[Whisky]

You would have to buy a thread adapter that would work just fine with any 30 cal direct mount suppressor with 5/8x24 threads.

PRECISION ARMAMENT THREAD ADAPTER 1/2-28 TO 5/8-24 | Brownells

 

[treillw]

You would have to buy a thread adapter that would work just fine with any 30 cal direct mount suppressor with 5/8x24 threads.

PRECISION ARMAMENT THREAD ADAPTER 1/2-28 TO 5/8-24 | Brownells

Not a bad idea. I might have to look at the barrel bending stuff a little closer.

Thunderbeast said they wouldn't honor their warranty if something happened to the suppressor and they didn't put their brake on the gun - just for information.