KIFARU TUT PYRAMID - How bad ass is it?

[BIGHORNtracks]

Columbus Bowhunter,

Too bad your post got hijacked and turned into a mess about Kifaru materials and materials testing.
That mess is a topic best suited for kifaru's message board, where the people who care about that can argue about it.

If you like kifaru products, great. If not, to each his own.

But, as to your original question, there is one user here who made a valuable point when comparing the sawtooth to the pyramid.
Luke Moffat addressed the wind issue.
When I first saw the pyramid, my initial instincts were " Why?..... A standard, round tipi will perform better in wind. " The sawtooth, as Luke said will definitely outperform the pyramid in wind as well.

So, if you are comparing the sawtooth to the pyramid, I would consider the performance of each.
Regardless of who tests the materials with what, and what claims about it are made.

If you value the head room over the wind performance, maybe the pyramid is for you.
If you want the head room plus a little better wind performance, maybe a traditional round tipi is what you want.

I use a tent in 45 MPH wind gusts every year it seems. Wind performance is an issue. Flat sides act like sails and they catch the wind.

Just my opinion.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Didn't mean to hijack anything. I don't follow podcasts and such, so the only info I had seen regarding fabric was what is on Kifaru's store website.

I do know that Kifaru has a well earned reputation for some of the best gear out there.

I for one appreciated getting some details on the fabric used, as Aron explained it in detail.



Good Hunting.

 

[sneaky]

Columbus Bowhunter,

Too bad your post got hijacked and turned into a mess about Kifaru materials and materials testing.
That mess is a topic best suited for kifaru's message board, where the people who care about that can argue about it.

If you like kifaru products, great. If not, to each his own.

But, as to your original question, there is one user here who made a valuable point when comparing the sawtooth to the pyramid.
Luke Moffat addressed the wind issue.
When I first saw the pyramid, my initial instincts were " Why?..... A standard, round tipi will perform better in wind. " The sawtooth, as Luke said will definitely outperform the pyramid in wind as well.

So, if you are comparing the sawtooth to the pyramid, I would consider the performance of each.
Regardless of who tests the materials with what, and what claims about it are made.

If you value the head room over the wind performance, maybe the pyramid is for you.
If you want the head room plus a little better wind performance, maybe a traditional round tipi is what you want.

I use a tent in 45 MPH wind gusts every year it seems. Wind performance is an issue. Flat sides act like sails and they catch the wind.

Just my opinion.

I think the explanation by the person who designed the shelter far outweighs your sour grapes approach. Aron came on here and answered all the questions that were brought up about the Tut. Luke had his concerns and Aron addressed them, and Luke didn't sound like a petulant child either. Like was said, there's a reason why they have tipis, the Sawtooth, and now a pyramid in the lineup. Each one fills a niche. Now, on to squirrels, Aron, you ever get those RER bows in? I've had a couple and a friend has half a dozen or so of them. Good shooters. I'm sure I'll run into you at RMS eventually.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Didn't mean to hijack anything. I don't follow podcasts and such, so the only info I had seen regarding fabric was what is on Kifaru's store website.

I do know that Kifaru has a well earned reputation for some of the best gear out there.

I for one appreciated getting some details on the fabric used, as Aron explained it in detail.



Good Hunting.

Don't worry about it MM, your questions were on point with the OP and lead to informative answer regarding some of the technical aspects of this new product. We don't typically take chastisement seriously from someone with less than 50 comments total anyway, especially when there was clearly quite a few interested in the same line of thinking as you interjected. Aron would have stopped it if it was out of hand. Pay no mind to the newbies that don't know their place.

 

[Columbus Bowhunter]

I've said that many, many times in the last couple of years.

Again, I'll answer any questions you guys have on the fabric.

Aron was appropriate and direct in his response relating the balancing act he’s trying to pull off. The Tut is HIS design and he’d be a fool to release it without a high level of confidence. The man may have been a meat-head, but he isn’t a fool. He is wise to avoid Patrick’s wrath.

Aron - I placed an order for the Tut on Friday, which means I’ll likely have one from your first run. I’m hoping that it arrives with the zipper installed ;-). I have every reason to believe that if it’s broke – you’ll fix it. Also, keep this in mind when cruising the interwebs:

“If you don’t got haters, then you ain’t poppin.”

As for this thread, I hope the open discussion on the merits of this shelter continues. I share the sentiments related to the sting of cost and material used with the gents who posted – very helpful. Besides, the title is definite click bait and you’ve all fallen into my trap.

-Mark

 

[Aron Snyder]

You bring up a good point about how the Tut/Sawtooth/Tipis handle wind, but you've left out MANY other factors to consider when someone is buying a shelter.

Here's a few things that I've found through my own use and decision making on shelters, but also from comments by users and potential users as well.

1) Not everyone camps in high wind areas or above treeline, so not everyone needs "the highest wind rated" shelter on the planet.

2) The Tut can be set up in half the time of a tipi of Sawtooth and for those hunting in heavy rain areas like North Idaho/Western Oregon or Washington, wind is less of a concern and a fast pitch can help keep you dry.

3) The Tut takes a lot less stakes to set up and only 4 stakes to get you out of the rain, so that means less weight and a faster and easier pitch.

4) If you compare the Sawtooth to a Tut, the footprint is a good bit longer in the Sawtooth and that can make it interesting when trying to find an area to pitch it. So the Tut has a smaller footprint with the idea that camping/pitching locations will be a little easier to find.

5) The way we set up the door in the corner of the Tut and location of the stove jack will allow to people to get in and out of the shelter without climbing over each other or passing by the stove. This, when compared to the Sawtooth, is completely different as you have to deal with both of those issues with the Sawtooth. The single corner zipper also allows saves weight and can be pitched in an awning style as well. All of these things make the Tut MUCH different than a Sawtooth or Tipi.

All of the things I've just addressed do not make the Tut "better" than our other shelters, but different and different means it will potentially bridge a gap the has been missing in our lineup so far.

Hopefully this clears a few things up.....

Thanks

Columbus Bowhunter,

Too bad your post got hijacked and turned into a mess about Kifaru materials and materials testing.
That mess is a topic best suited for kifaru's message board, where the people who care about that can argue about it.

If you like kifaru products, great. If not, to each his own.

But, as to your original question, there is one user here who made a valuable point when comparing the sawtooth to the pyramid.
Luke Moffat addressed the wind issue.
When I first saw the pyramid, my initial instincts were " Why?..... A standard, round tipi will perform better in wind. " The sawtooth, as Luke said will definitely outperform the pyramid in wind as well.

So, if you are comparing the sawtooth to the pyramid, I would consider the performance of each.
Regardless of who tests the materials with what, and what claims about it are made.

If you value the head room over the wind performance, maybe the pyramid is for you.
If you want the head room plus a little better wind performance, maybe a traditional round tipi is what you want.

I use a tent in 45 MPH wind gusts every year it seems. Wind performance is an issue. Flat sides act like sails and they catch the wind.

Just my opinion.

 

[Columbus Bowhunter]

The wind resistance is a definite limitation as stated by BIGHORN, Aron, and that High Lord of Wind and Storm himself Luke Moffat. Would a lower pitch using a single trekking pole mitigate this issue or would the excess fabric make it a wash even with the spider web of guylines? Appreciate any experienced perspectives on this.

-Mark

 

[Aron Snyder]

The Tut actually does better than you think when the side walls are pitched out a bit. It actually makes for a slope that the wind can flow off of, instead of bounce off of.

A lower pitch will help some, but I was in really high winds with it and the standard pitch wasn't an issue when the sidewall guy lines were staked out.

The wind resistance is a definite limitation as stated by BIGHORN, Aron, and that High Lord of Wind and Storm himself Luke Moffat. Would a lower pitch using a single trekking pole mitigate this issue or would the excess fabric make it a wash even with the spider web of guylines? Appreciate any experienced perspectives on this.

-Mark

 

[Brendan]

Aron, for solo use, how would it work with a cot/pad across the back, with stove / chair gear up front?

 

[Aron Snyder]

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[Aron Snyder]

The photos above should give you an idea, but it would work fine, if I'm understanding you correctly.

If it's a military type cot, you would need to bring it in from the sides a little, but there's plenty of room for the low or high pitch cot.

 

[squeekieslayer]

I hope my comment was not to blame for derailing this thread. I am not under the delusion that Kifaru is turning out the same product as other companies and jacking the price to make more money... I truly think that they are one of the most honest companies in the industry, and Aron's replies and explanation on this thread are proof. I am in an industry that is constantly being chipped away at by cheap materials and online sales... I understand quality and would NOT expect any less from Kifaru.

I really like the design and idea of the TUT, but it, just like EVERY other product in the industry, has to fit your needs. There are trade offs for everything. For me, the fact that a bullet would bounce off of the fabric is not as big of an issue as it is for some, as I camp in the trees most of the time. That said, I still live in and hunt in one of the windiest areas in the country and have never had an issue with my tipi shelter. I guess that my point was simply that for the weight, size, design and cost, the tipi shelter is a more versatile design for my needs and style. Yes, the fabric may stretch more, but I have never had an issue with it.

Just like many of you choose to go with a 500d pack instead of the same one in 1000d... we all have our needs. Sometimes bulletproof ENOUGH is good enough to fit my budget and style. My only fear is that this shelter is so over engineered to the point that it is overkill for the vast majority of users and that will deter sales... thats all.

I would never expect anything else from Kifaru, trust me, I have spent more than I care to admit on Kifaru products, but for me, other shelter options seem to fit my style better.

The fact that your warranty and CS is why you chose the better material speaks volumes about your business model.

Joe

 

[squeekieslayer]

Hell, with all I have said I am still thinking about dropping the money on the TUT... MOstly because most of the time there are only 2 of us and it is hard to find a spot that is flat and big enough for the tipi.

JOe

 

[Mike7]

Being a NW guy I can vouch for the many potential advatages of pyramids as Aron detailed above, including ease of getting improved ventilation when needed. The Tut Pyramid seems to be a relatively tall/narrow version of a pyramid compared to some in the manner that it is pitched in the photos, so maybe it catches a little more wind? But for the slightly more squatty pyramids that also include mid-wall and mid-corner seam tieouts like the Tut, they are excellent in the wind. In fact wind getting in under the edges can be more of a problem than your shelter blowing down.

I have never seen a Kifaru tipi with its less stretchy nylon in really high winds, but the other brands of tipis I have seen with potentially more "stretchy" silnylon can form a sale like this in high winds... " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT7H6uMtuOY&feature=player_detailpage " ...which allows them to catch a lot of wind compared to a slightly lower pyramid with mid-wall tieouts and the same more "stretchy" silnylon.

The corner door is interesting. With mini-groundhogs and a stick or trekking poles to pitch this thing, a guy could have a pretty light 2 person with stove setup. I think a 1-2 person not so tall and slightly narrower Tut would be an interesting shelter as well.

 

[cowboy300]

Aron did you guys ever test using lightweight poles (carbon arrows maybe?) at all 4 corners to give a true vertical sidewall? I am using a similar designed tent like the Tut from Cabelas called the outback lodge when I pack in on horses and it has short aluminum poles on the corners for a tighter vertical wall. Just a thought...

 

[AK Troutbum]

But for the slightly more squatty pyramids that also include mid-wall and mid-corner seam tieouts like the Tut, they are excellent in the wind. In fact wind getting in under the edges can be more of a problem than your shelter blowing down.

^^^^This. In the last 4 years I've spent over 6 weeks camping in various size mids on Kodiak above tree line, and have experienced some hellacious storms. The pyramid is a very capable design as long as you have it staked out sufficiently.

 

[tipsntails7]

Being a NW guy I can vouch for the many potential advatages of pyramids as Aron detailed above, including ease of getting improved ventilation when needed. The Tut Pyramid seems to be a relatively tall/narrow version of a pyramid compared to some in the manner that it is pitched in the photos, so maybe it catches a little more wind? But for the slightly more squatty pyramids that also include mid-wall and mid-corner seam tieouts like the Tut, they are excellent in the wind. In fact wind getting in under the edges can be more of a problem than your shelter blowing down.

I have never seen a Kifaru tipi with its less stretchy nylon in really high winds, but the other brands of tipis I have seen with potentially more "stretchy" silnylon can form a sale like this in high winds... " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT7H6uMtuOY&feature=player_detailpage " ...which allows them to catch a lot of wind compared to a slightly lower pyramid with mid-wall tieouts and the same more "stretchy" silnylon.

The corner door is interesting. With mini-groundhogs and a stick or trekking poles to pitch this thing, a guy could have a pretty light 2 person with stove setup. I think a 1-2 person not so tall and slightly narrower Tut would be an interesting shelter as well.

In fairness that has zero stake out points beside the bottom, I guess I'm not sure what they expected.

 

[mrgreen]

I'm thinking this might be a replacement for my Sawtooth. I like the lighter weight and simpler set-up. Will it be a PITA to get to the bottom of that corner zipper from inside?

 

[Aron Snyder]

I'm thinking this might be a replacement for my Sawtooth. I like the lighter weight and simpler set-up. Will it be a PITA to get to the bottom of that corner zipper from inside?

It's actually easier since the wall is more vertical..... More room to get closer to the edge.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[Robbie]

It's actually easier since the wall is more vertical..... More room to get closer to the edge.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

if you tie a sick onto the zipper it makes it easier at least in an 8 man