Justice Alito "cooks" (literally!) BATFE "ghost gun" rule!

[Yoder]

Easy to say until you are no longer able to purchase firearms or ammunition and/or you go to jail after a traffic stop because you had a firearm in the vehicle that is no longer legal to own.

So, what are you doing about it? Typing outrage on the internet? Donating money to broken, useless gun rights organizations? All we can do is vote, for whatever that's worth. I honestly believe that the majority of people on both sides of the government want to take away the second amendment. They have to completely break us first. They are already doing this by poisoning our food, killing us with drugs, bankrupting our country and opening the borders. Once we fall, nothing stands in the way of a global government. I think that's the goal, but I'm just a conspiracy theorist. I already sold all of my guns and ammo to some guy. If I didn't, I would be willing to go to prison or die before I handed them over, so new laws are irrelevant to me.

 

[Rotnguns]

So, what are you doing about it? Typing outrage on the internet? Donating money to broken, useless gun rights organizations? All we can do is vote, for whatever that's worth. I honestly believe that the majority of people on both sides of the government want to take away the second amendment. They have to completely break us first. They are already doing this by poisoning our food, killing us with drugs, bankrupting our country and opening the borders. Once we fall, nothing stands in the way of a global government. I think that's the goal, but I'm just a conspiracy theorist. I already sold all of my guns and ammo to some guy. If I didn't, I would be willing to go to prison or die before I handed them over, so new laws are irrelevant to me.

If I may chime in here, I'm no activist. However, in my career as a university professor, I heard constant misconceptions regarding both technical and legal aspects of firearms, and I did not let them go unchallenged. When our faculty senate passed a continuing resolution condemning Idaho's concealed weapons policy for public colleges and universities, I made a giant stink, which actually resulted in the resolution being discontinued. Not much at all in the great scheme of politics, I know, but if I can change a few minds, or at least get people to see the other side of the issue, I feel that I made a difference.

 

[Yoder]

If I may chime in here, I'm no activist. However, in my career as a university professor, I heard constant misconceptions regarding both technical and legal aspects of firearms, and I did not let them go unchallenged. When our faculty senate passed a continuing resolution condemning Idaho's concealed weapons policy for public colleges and universities, I made a giant stink, which actually resulted in the resolution being discontinued. Not much at all in the great scheme of politics, I know, but if I can change a few minds, or at least get people to see the other side of the issue, I feel that I made a difference.

That's awesome. Way more than I've ever done.

 

[elkliver]

So, what are you doing about it? Typing outrage on the internet? Donating money to broken, useless gun rights organizations? All we can do is vote, for whatever that's worth. I honestly believe that the majority of people on both sides of the government want to take away the second amendment. They have to completely break us first. They are already doing this by poisoning our food, killing us with drugs, bankrupting our country and opening the borders. Once we fall, nothing stands in the way of a global government. I think that's the goal, but I'm just a conspiracy theorist. I already sold all of my guns and ammo to some guy. If I didn't, I would be willing to go to prison or die before I handed them over, so new laws are irrelevant to me.

My point being that ignoring new proposed legislation and not voting because you have already decided you will not comply is not a good plan. Whether voting will do any good or not is debatable but you at least need to attempt to prevent the slow removal of freedom. Going to Jail because the law changed and i didn't pay attention means an immediate loss of freedom. When measure 114 passed here in Oregon and people found out that they could no longer purchase a firearm, a lot of folks said things like "I thought that was only for Assault Weapons" or ... I didn't think there was any chance it would pass so i ignored it." Ignoring the legislation just fast forwards the process for gun grabbers.

 

[Rotnguns]

That's awesome. Way more than I've ever done.

Well, I'll bet it isn't way more than you've done. Your the type of fellow who sticks up for what he believes and that's a fine thing.

 

[Jpsmith1]

Pretty simple really!

Alito Wrecks ATF 'Ghost Gun' Claims: Are Eggs and Peppers an Omelet?

Justice Samuel Alito wrecked the government's defense of the ATF "ghost gun" rule during oral arguments Tuesday by asking if eggs and peppers are an omelet.

www.breitbart.com

Let's see how that argument plays out in regards to "constructive posession"

If I buy a shoulder stock for my TC contender and have that in my home, I would be guilty of having an SBR even if I never assemble the actual SBR according to my understanding of current BATFE/NFA rules. If I had a 16" barrel, I would be fine until I actually assembled the SBR.

 

[Rotnguns]

Let's see how that argument plays out in regards to "constructive posession"

If I buy a shoulder stock for my TC contender and have that in my home, I would be guilty of having an SBR even if I never assemble the actual SBR according to my understanding of current BATFE/NFA rules. If I had a 16" barrel, I would be fine until I actually assembled the SBR.

Yeah, this whole deal pushed by ATF and Biden is really nuts. The problem is that so few of those supporting Biden's position have any technical understanding of the items they want to ban or regulate. Their logic can be taken to absurd conclusions, as Alito pointed out. I hope ATF and Biden get a big black eye over this, but I suspect that sadly, they may prevail.

 

[Jpsmith1]

Yeah, this whole deal pushed by ATF and Biden is really nuts. The problem is that so few of those supporting Biden's position have any technical understanding of the items they want to ban or regulate. Their logic can be taken to absurd conclusions, as Alito pointed out. I hope ATF and Biden get a big black eye over this, but I suspect that sadly, they may prevail.

I believe that enforcement policy predates the current administration.

 

[mt terry d]

That it's even before the SC is proof the whole system is a fraud. Every SC justice included.

Where in the Constitution does it grant the government ANY power regarding
firearms and who can have them , let alone what types, etc?

NO f'n Where. That's where.

But they won't even bring up that niggly little detail, not even the exalted
so-called conservative clowns in black robes.

Bread and circus.

 

[HuntHarder]

I have never owned an 80% lower, what is the intention or benefit of having an 80% lower vs. buying a stripped fully machined lower?

 

[Rotnguns]

I believe that enforcement policy predates the current administration.

Yes, as applied to SBR's and also to NFA weapons in general, I think you are right. I was thinking in the context of ghost guns.

 

[maxx075]

I have never owned an 80% lower, what is the intention or benefit of having an 80% lower vs. buying a stripped fully machined lower?

No serial.

Plus their fun projects to make at home yourself.

 

[Yoder]

My point being that ignoring new proposed legislation and not voting because you have already decided you will not comply is not a good plan. Whether voting will do any good or not is debatable but you at least need to attempt to prevent the slow removal of freedom. Going to Jail because the law changed and i didn't pay attention means an immediate loss of freedom. When measure 114 passed here in Oregon and people found out that they could no longer purchase a firearm, a lot of folks said things like "I thought that was only for Assault Weapons" or ... I didn't think there was any chance it would pass so i ignored it." Ignoring the legislation just fast forwards the process for gun grabbers.

I always vote. I just hope it still matters. I just don't trust the people counting the votes.

 

[HuntHarder]

Thanks, not having a serial # isn't important to me, so I guess I'd never be interested in an 80%. Is it common to not want a serial #? Seems odd that you'd want an Ar without one. Surely all your other guns have them, but not an AR? Silly imo.

 

[maxx075]

Thanks, not having a serial # isn't important to me, so I guess I'd never be interested in an 80%. Is it common to not want a serial #? Seems odd that you'd want an Ar without one. Surely all your other guns have them, but not an AR? Silly imo.

Idk about you, but I really don't want the government knowing about everything I own. I mean I guess there are those people that want the government to know everything they do, what they own, and basically control every aspect of their life.

 

[HuntHarder]

Idk about you, but I really don't want the government knowing about everything I own. I mean I guess there are those people that want the government to know everything they do, what they own, and basically control every aspect of their life.

I won't go down that political rabbit hole with you, just simply stated my opinion. Thank you for educating me on the lowers in question. Just know that I am not one of those people you described. Some things make sense to me and others do not, simple as that.

 

[hereinaz]

That it's even before the SC is proof the whole system is a fraud. Every SC justice included.

Where in the Constitution does it grant the government ANY power regarding
firearms and who can have them , let alone what types, etc?

NO f'n Where. That's where.

But they won't even bring up that niggly little detail, not even the exalted
so-called conservative clowns in black robes.

Bread and circus.

At the time of the Constitution, and bill of rights and thereafter, there were State laws that limited the use and possession of firearms, which the Framers and States actually enforced through state law.

The Constitution’s Second Amendment didn’t stop the state from doing anything.

And, actually, nothing in the Federal Constitution prevented the Stares from outright banning guns. That is why some states have a “second amendment” type of right in their constitution.

Under the Constitution as passed and the original bill of rights, the Federal gov, under principles of State Sovereignty, could have done nothing if California banned all guns.

The Framers basically left arms as a States issue, as a republican form of govt where the Federal Gov had limited power. There were State Constitutions with protections like the 2nd, which is where the Framers left power over arms.

Ironically, those who want the US Supreme Court to stop States from violating gun rights today want a more powerful Federal govt than the Framers intended.

There is good and bad with the growth of the Federal Govt power. Now, we can be thankful that things changed in the centuries since. But, hate how the Feds impose other restrictions like “taxation” or suppressors to limit ownership and access. Under the Constitution, “taxation” and “commerce clause” is the only power the Fed govt had to regulate guns.

That is why we have to pay a TAX to own a suppressor

We have federal protection from state laws now, but the federal Second Amendment didn’t actually protect against overreaching and abusive state laws until due process was “incorporated” under the 14th Amendment to apply to the States in 2010. The 14th amendment was passed to keep the states from discriminating against blacks after the Civil War.

Gun laws are far more complex than most can imagine.

I agree with the passion of your statement. I agree with the notion that the Framers did not want states to be as restrictive. So, not to demean your statement at all (I consider that a failure of our schools to teach good American History and Civics) prior to 2010, the US Supreme Court had never restricted a state’s ability to regulate guns.

 

[mt terry d]

Good points, however no colony would have signed on to the Constitution
if it meant the Feds could overrule the state/colony on anything. All this crap
is just created out of thin air by the Judicial system. No actual authority to even
create the ATF.

And no colony would have joined the Union if they didn't retain the option
of leaving at any time of their choosing. "Voluntary Union".

But good o'l Abe decided he'd kill you if you tried to leave and made this
country into Hotel California where you can check out any time you like but
you can never leave.

 

[hereinaz]

Good points, however no colony would have signed on to the Constitution
if it meant the Feds could overrule the state/colony on anything. All this crap
is just created out of thin air by the Judicial system. No actual authority to even
create the ATF.

And no colony would have joined the Union if they didn't retain the option
of leaving at any time of their choosing. "Voluntary Union".

But good o'l Abe decided he'd kill you if you tried to leave and made this
country into Hotel California where you can check out any time you like but
you can never leave.

We are in a tangled mess for sure. I agree framers would not appreciate the overreach of the Feds into our lives.

Problem is that the Feds have the right to regulate commerce between the states, and the commerce clause has been abused, in addition to the right to tax.

The ATF regulates alcohol, tobacco and firearms under the taxing power and the commerce clause of the Constitution.

Sucks the way laws have rolled out since Franklin Roosevelt and the Wickard v. Filburn case when the Supreme Court said that the feds could stop a man from growing wheat on his own farm to feed his own animals because it could affect interstate commerce…

 

[mt terry d]

Hell, it started right off with Washington and the Whiskey rebellion.

Should have just kept the Articles of Confederation but the
Lovers of Government couldn't stand for that.

But we pretend we're freeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

Remember to vote really hard this time kids