Jimmy John kills potential new state record sheep in NM

[BBob]

but every time they have money they buy new trucks and 4 wheelers and side by sides.

The AZ raffle and auction moneys are mandated into the habitat funds and cannot be used for general expenses.

 

[Fredcohunter]

Many have asked why I feel this is driving up sheep hunts in general. Admittedly I don’t know if it does. But what I do know is if that animal is a free range animal it belongs to the state and therefore the people. There is only a select few that can BUY that sheep; and they are buying it. As someone stated earlier if they did it as a raffle where ticket prices were affordable to mot average hunters and limit the number of tickets that an individual could buy, then I wouldn’t have an issue with it.

I do find it ironic that some condemn high fence hunting but applaud a hunt like this.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

You cant make both arguments in one paragraph. If the animal belongs to the state and therefore the people how do you reconcile with the anti hunters who would prefer it not be killed? Is it any less theirs than it is yours? If your selling raffle tickets Can they buy raffle tickets not to have it shot?

 

[CorbLand]

You cant make both arguments in one paragraph. If the animal belongs to the state and therefore the people how do you reconcile with the anti hunters who would prefer it not be killed? Is it any less theirs than it is yours? If your selling raffle tickets Can they buy raffle tickets not to have it shot?

They do have just as much right to not have animals killed, currently they are just out weighed by the funding that hunters provide. This is changing and its why we see more and more legislation and lawsuits taking hunting opportunities.

Yes, they can buy a raffle ticket, draw the tag and choose not to hunt it. This happens all the time in the regular draws. I am sure that it does happen with raffle tags.

They have equal access to the tags in the draws and raffles. What one chooses to do with their tag is up to them.

 

[MuleyFever]

They do have just as much right to not have animals killed, currently they are just out weighed by the funding that hunters provide. This is changing and its why we see more and more legislation and lawsuits taking hunting opportunities.

Yes, they can buy a raffle ticket, draw the tag and choose not to hunt it. This happens all the time in the regular draws. I am sure that it does happen with raffle tags.

They have equal access to the tags in the draws and raffles. What one chooses to do with their tag is up to them.

Weren't there grizzly tags up at one point before it got shut down and anti groups trying to get them?

Found it - https://ladyfreethinker.org/jane-goodall-buying-grizzly-hunt-licenses-bear-hunters-wont-get/

 

[CorbLand]

Weren't there grizzly tags up at one point before it got shut down and anti groups trying to get them?

Found it - https://ladyfreethinker.org/jane-goodall-buying-grizzly-hunt-licenses-bear-hunters-wont-get/

Yep. The same thing was proposed by anti groups when wolf hunting was opened.

 

[Jethro]

Anyone interested in buying a raffle ticket for a sheep hunt is already doing so. You won't increase the number of people interested by having more raffle tickets available.

 

[wapitibob]

Anyone interested in buying a raffle ticket for a sheep hunt is already doing so. You won't increase the number of people interested by having more raffle tickets available.

Correct. I have never purchased a raffle ticket that I can remember. And I'm certainly not buying 1 ticket for $100 if they sell more than 100 tickets total. I can get 1/200 odds by applying for Sheep locally for $8.
I believe AZ is going to discover that "doing the right thing" by eliminating auction tags comes at a steep price.

 

[Steve O]

Anyone interested in buying a raffle ticket for a sheep hunt is already doing so. You won't increase the number of people interested by having more raffle tickets available.

100% correct and all the people don’t want to pay a $20 surcharge on their license. The guys apply for sheep will; just as the guys applying for sheep are the vast majority doing to the work and paying the way for the sheep already. Including the rich bastards that are paying WAY more than their fair share and all the rest of us poor bastards are benefiting from it.

And to all the holier than thou dudes that say “prove it”, you can look at my avatar photo. That ram would not have been available for a scum bag non resident to hunt if not for the work of the ADBSS. The same ADBSS who was adamantly opposed to eliminating the AZ governors tag. The all volunteer organization that does all the work with AZGFD.

Same for the Rocky I was able to hunt in Colorado thanks to the RMBS.

HUGE thanks to those organizations and volunteers making the most out of the funds available for wild sheep mostly due to the AUCTION tags.

Boggles the mind so many who have never done it, never donated, and never volunteered for the betterment of sheep know SO much about how it all works.

And Jethro, just so there is no misunderstanding, you are 100% right, I just got on a roll.

 

[TenRing]

Limit the raffle tags to one per person you will get more people involved.example of this is look at wyoming super tags unlimited purchase and with 10 tags they only got 500k more then the nevada silver state tags and that's only 4 tags. More hunters that care about sheep and more money will come in it's not that difficult to understand. auction tags are in place to give the rich guys there playground they are not doing it for the good of the species.

If NV advertised those tags outside of hunters that applied in nv they would crush what any auction tag would provide.

That 20 per applicant is a kick in the bucket to eliminate auction tags I would be on board with that

Then NV could advertise that with the extra fee they are going to Raffle off tags and everyone that applied in NV gets entered probabaly get more regular applicants as well for elk deer and antelope if they started that

You aren't going to add any more additional people to nevadas raffle. They already advertise to the people who area already applying and spending money and still only get 17% of them applying for deer and elk, 10% for antelope and 12% for Sheep. So, the statistics already say that they won't be able too outsell the auctions.

As far as the $20 fee, it couldn't be mandatory it would be an optional donation. So you'd have to consider you won't be able to get all 70k applicants to click that button. So in reality, even if you get 25% which is more then apply for SS tags you'd only raise a fraction of the money to cover the loss of auctions. So do you make it a $75 fee, and hope you get people to do it? But then again, people are already donating $25 per species in the draw....

I understand you don't like the auction hunts, but they do serve a purpose. Ultimately we will have to revisit this next year after everyone sees how AZ does with their new raffle rules and zero auction hunts.

 

[Steve O]

I am curious how you think ME is a bigger problem?

Since you asked I was curious and found this - https://www.themeateater.com/pages/meateater-gives

MF,

$1.8M over the last 3 years from a corporation and for what? And what did big Steve give on his own before that. JJ spent $1.2M that went directly to the sheep of CO and NM in one weekend, who knows what other tags he bought that weekend bud I’d wager a cold one JJ donated at least $10M over the same period that goes DIRECTLY to the state game agencies for all the tags he buys.

As far as my problem with “MeatEater” is he prostitutes the hunting and fishing “life” for profit. He is also a Trojan Horse. Here are a couple links for you:


Big Money Steve

Steve’s BOSS

In my universe, you are known by the company you keep and steveie is dealing with the devil all for filling his pockets.

 

[Archer86]

MF,

$1.8M over the last 3 years from a corporation and for what? And what did big Steve give on his own before that. JJ spent $1.2M that went directly to the sheep of CO and NM in one weekend, who knows what other tags he bought that weekend bud I’d wager a cold one JJ donated at least $10M over the same period that goes DIRECTLY to the state game agencies for all the tags he buys.

As far as my problem with “MeatEater” is he prostitutes the hunting and fishing “life” for profit. He is also a Trojan Horse. Here are a couple links for you:


Big Money Steve

Steve’s BOSS

In my universe, you are known by the company you keep and steveie is dealing with the devil all for filling his pockets.

Your out of you mind if you think big jimmy is in this to help the species if that was the case what did he donate to coloradians for responsible wildlife managment to fight the cougar hunting ban? The same guy you are praising will side with the goverment representatives that would like nothing else to sell off all the public land and lock you out.

What meat eater does for advocating for hunters as a whole is far above what Jimmy j can do with his money

 

[Steve O]

I’m not praising anyone. I’m presenting factual information.

 

[Reburn]

Your out of you mind if you think big jimmy is in this to help the species if that was the case what did he donate to coloradians for responsible wildlife managment to fight the cougar hunting ban? The same guy you are praising will side with the goverment representatives that would like nothing else to sell off all the public land and lock you out.

What meat eater does for advocating for hunters as a whole is far above what Jimmy j can do with his money

Do you have a link to an article that says where he bought a ranch and locked out access. Or an article of him saying thats what he wanted. I searched and was not able to fing anything. If it exists I would like to see it.

 

[Archer86]

Do you have a link to an article that says where he bought a ranch and locked out access. Or an article of him saying thats what he wanted. I searched and was not able to fing anything. If it exists I would like to see it.

First you have to show where I said anything about him buying a ranch and locking anyone out...

 

[Reburn]

side with the goverment representatives that would like nothing else to sell off all the public land and lock you out.

First you have to show where I said anything about him buying a ranch and locking anyone out...

Someone has to buy the public land. Making it a ranch. Him or his friends buying it. Whomever.

Thats why I also said OR article where he expressed those views about locking the public out of public land.

Look I was fooled by muley freak too for a short time before I figured out what a D-bag he was. If JJ has said anything like that or done it I'm genuinely interested in knowing.

 

[TheTone]

Any thoughts for the gallery on raffles with a set number of chances and someone buying the vast majority to basically guarantee a win? It’s definitely happening with some raffles and costing them less than an auction tag would

But again; those spending big bucks on raffles and auctions are doing it for conservation not to kill giant stuff with special opportunities

 

[HuntHarder]

Any thoughts for the gallery on raffles with a set number of chances and someone buying the vast majority to basically guarantee a win? It’s definitely happening with some raffles and costing them less than an auction tag would

But again; those spending big bucks on raffles and auctions are doing it for conservation not to kill giant stuff with special opportunities

It's hard, I know it is for sure happening, but the mere fact that you can not buy all the chances to win is ok with me. I doubt limiting the entries to 1 per person would ever increase funds. Most people's gripe with auction tags stem from being able to 100% buy that tag because they are the high bidder. In a raffle scenario, everyone that enters has a chance albeit smaller than the guy who buys 1000 chances.

 

[Sandbrew]

I’d be interesting in seeing the proof that the system, as currently set up, does help western big game.
I’m just not knowledgeable enough to know.
I do know that I never hear of more sheep or more opportunities. But that could be my ears.

@ddd-shooter I'd like to make the case that at least in Colorado we do see some very positive results from the Auction an Raffle funds raised. In 2005 the Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society used those funds with CODW to conduct a trap and transplant in January of 2005 to reestablish a sheep herd in the Zirkels, now S73 in Northern Colorado. I have been lucky enough to help a friend harvest a great ram there in 2018 on a tag he drew. He is one of about 35 ram public draw hunters and 16 ewe hunters who have had an opportunity to experience a sheep hunt in a unit with now 150+ sheep where there was ZERO 25 years ago.

Also of note Colorado limits each buyer to a MAX of 25 tickets and there is only one auction and 1 raffle tag per year for sheep. Money raised is split 75/25 with 75% going to CPW where it can ONLY be used for special projects related to sheep approved by a committee including the organizations that raised the funds. A pretty good checks and balances on the system.

Sandbrew

 

[mtnbiker208]

Your out of you mind if you think big jimmy is in this to help the species if that was the case what did he donate to coloradians for responsible wildlife managment to fight the cougar hunting ban? The same guy you are praising will side with the goverment representatives that would like nothing else to sell off all the public land and lock you out.

What meat eater does for advocating for hunters as a whole is far above what Jimmy j can do with his money

In the pod cast posted a ways back. JJ talks about buying the montana governors tag 4 times. He became friends with some of the biologist. The biologist let him know of a ranch that just put domestic sheep on the property borders the missouri river breaks. JJ bought the sheep from the ranch to prevent the spread of disease and bought the rancher some cattle to replace the sheep with. But you are right, he does not do anything for the sheep. Or he does it with out fan fare and does not advertise these things. It also talks about his first hunt was a dall in the mid to late 90's and had a grand slam by the early 2000's.

 

[cuerro viejo]

First you have to show where I said anything about him buying a ranch and locking anyone out...

lol there are several examples of JJ on this thread going way way past the ordinary solely consumptive hunter in terms of conservation. It is funny all you can do is allude to one off voting or not voting, and dismiss everything else.

People wonder why there is becoming such a divide amongst us. The petty hate is real

Hell I want to go buy a sheep Tag now and hire G and post it up on RS just so you can whine