Jimmy John kills potential new state record sheep in NM

[cuerro viejo]

I’ll say it, the sandwiches are extremely overrated

If all the big money sheep tags are helping sheep herds should tag numbers be climbing significantly? I see them doing a much better job of putting sheep in trophy rooms not sheep on the mountain. Saw another posse ram online this week with all sort of people congratulating the killer. The truth is the ram was ridiculously visible and nothing about the hunt was difficult. Just a matter of spending big money on a tag to go kill it

I’m a huge fan of the sheep work kuiu has been helping with the past few years, all done without a single sheep being sold to the highest bidder

I’d say your post is just simply wrong and lacked the thought to actually check the sheep numbers of NM.


this herd (Jemez)was started with 45 sheep in 2014 relocated from Taos/wheeler after one of the largest Fires in NM history and 10 years later jemez area has over 200. I’d say that’s pretty big growth.

Almost ever desert sheep in NM has roots to the breeder facility in Redrock In the southwest corner of the state. I think they are getting close to 600plus sheep transplanted. id say that’s a lot of sheep


In 1978 there were only 700 Rocky Mountain Bighorn sheep, and only 88 desert Bighorn sheep left in New Mexico.

Currently NM has 1800 Rocky Mountain Bighorn sheep. There is now 1200 desert bighorn sheep in eight different desert mountain ranges in the southern part of the state

Jemez- Not sure how 0-200 isn’t a big deal in 10 years. Increase of 200

BHS from 1975- 700 head to 1800…. That’s an +-1100 head increase

DBHS1975 from 88 to 1200…..that’s a about a +-1100 head increase

If there wasn’t big money supporting these releases they would be a lot less sheep. In fact 97% of NM sheep conservation dollars come from non-residents.

 

[TheTone]

I’d say your post is just simply wrong and lacked the thought to actually check the sheep numbers of NM.


this herd (Jemez)was started with 45 sheep in 2014 relocated from Taos/wheeler after one of the largest Fires in NM history and 10 years later jemez area has over 200. I’d say that’s pretty big growth.

Almost ever desert sheep in NM has roots to the breeder facility in Redrock In the southwest corner of the state. I think they are getting close to 600plus sheep transplanted. id say that’s a lot of sheep


In 1978 there were only 700 Rocky Mountain Bighorn sheep, and only 88 desert Bighorn sheep left in New Mexico.

Currently NM has 1800 Rocky Mountain Bighorn sheep. There is now 1200 desert bighorn sheep in eight different desert mountain ranges in the southern part of the state

Jemez- Not sure how 0-200 isn’t a big deal in 10 years. Increase of 200

BHS from 1975- 700 head to 1800…. That’s an +-1100 head increase

DBHS1975 from 88 to 1200…..that’s a about a +-1100 head increase

If there wasn’t big money supporting these releases they would be a lot less sheep. In fact 97% of NM sheep conservation dollars come from non-residents.

That’s great that New Mexico sheep are going up; it can’t be said across the all of the west. Numbers are me bounce around but never really go up substantially. Die offs continue to happen, tons of rams being killed by tribal members that contribute nothing towards management, hobby flocks of domestics still inside sheep range, occupied private sheep habitat being divided and built on, etc

 

[cuerro viejo]

That’s great that New Mexico sheep are going up; it can’t be said across the all of the west. Numbers are me bounce around but never really go up substantially. Die offs continue to happen, tons of rams being killed by tribal members that contribute nothing towards management, hobby flocks of domestics still inside sheep range, occupied private sheep habitat being divided and built on, etc

NM has domestic sheep issues also, the ladrones got hit hard with movi. But ladrones wouldn’t have sheep any way with out influx of auction tag money. It has had a 1/2 dozen auction tags rams come out of it, since it opened

Declining sheep means even more reason to continue sheep transplantation, and the biggest funder right now of sheep conservation is auction tags. In other words it would be worse with out the large influx of cash via a micro amount of auction tags.

 

[Archer86]

All you guys that think raffle tags could equal the auction tag revenues with a little advertising should just do a tiny bit of research. Idaho for instance has two tags, one for the raffle and one for the auction. The auction consistently brings 4 to 10 times the raffle tag. Most of the time it just depends if Unit 11 is in the raffle or the auction…both tags are done each year. There is a TON more advertising done for the raffle tags and ZERO spent on promoting the auction tag. I can tell you from actually speak to the sheep biologist that she is quite pleased with the funding that comes from the auction tag.

Those rich guys buy a TON of raffle tickets too so don’t think for a second your chances are that much better in the raffle.

You obviously did read I said cap the raffle tags one per person. Don't allow unlimited purchases or you are correct that the rich just buy a bunch of raffle tickets and that just makes average hunters un interested. Everyone on the same playing field will get more hunters interested and maybe more hunters advocating for wild sheep. Vs seeing someone pay 600k for a tag then pay outfitters and buddies to go scout for him to kill a sheep.

Do you have anything to show the difference between the amount of advertising that idaho does for the raffle tag vs the auction tags you are referring to or is that just your opinion. Because I have never seen one advertisement from idaho about raffle tags.

It's funny how with a raffle alot claim you cants make as much money for sheep probabaly just trying to keep it like the European model rich guys buy kill tags and claim they are helping the sheep population when most areas have been on the decline for years. Sheep need advocates more then the money from auction tags More advocates will result in more money

 

[Brooks]

Very glad to see a man of his means spending money like he does on hunting and conservation. He could be like a lot of rich woke people and spend it on trying to end hunting. Congrats to JJ !

 

[Archer86]

Maybe but your assuming all those people would buy a chance. I could really care less about shooting a sheep and would never buy one and know most the guys I hunt with don’t really care so you might get a quarter of the people. Then you have to take all the cost associated with running the raffle out and time.

Even at a quarter which is 45k at 25 a pop that's alittle over a million

 

[Steve O]

You obviously did read I said cap the raffle tags one per person. Don't allow unlimited purchases or you are correct that the rich just buy a bunch of raffle tickets and that just makes average hunters un interested. Everyone on the same playing field will get more hunters interested and maybe more hunters advocating for wild sheep. Vs seeing someone pay 600k for a tag then pay outfitters and buddies to go scout for him to kill a sheep.

Do you have anything to show the difference between the amount of advertising that idaho does for the raffle tag vs the auction tags you are referring to or is that just your opinion. Because I have never seen one advertisement from idaho about raffle tags.

It's funny how with a raffle alot claim you cants make as much money for sheep probabaly just trying to keep it like the European model rich guys buy kill tags and claim they are helping the sheep population when most areas have been on the decline for years. Sheep need advocates more then the money from auction tags More advocates will result in more money

yeah I have the 1/2 dozen flyers they send me every year and the advertisements in every western hunting and sheep publication. Maybe I get them because I’m a life member in the Idaho Wild sheep Foundation. And the National WSF. And Montana. And Arizona. And Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society. And probably a couple others I can’t think of off the top of my head.

I can’t afford auction tags (but help where I think is best this the life memberships), but I’ve seen over and over first hand the good that they do. I don’t deal much with theoreticals…

I love to sheep hunt. Don’t get to do it enough, but understand better than most what it takes to hunt them (have hunted all 4) and what it takes to protect and promote them.

 

[Archer86]

yeah I have the 1/2 dozen flyers they send me every year and the advertisements in every western hunting and sheep publication. Maybe I get them because I’m a life member in the Idaho Wild sheep Foundation. And the National WSF. And Montana. And Arizona. And Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society. And probably a couple others I can’t think of off the top of my head.

I can’t afford auction tags (but help where I think is best this the life memberships), but I’ve seen over and over first hand the good that they do. I don’t deal much with theoreticals…

I love to sheep hunt. Don’t get to do it enough, but understand better than most what it takes to hunt them (have hunted all 4) and what it takes to protect and promote them.

Hahah so alot more advertising to you is send flyers to some members of sheep clubs.

That's the funniest dam thing I have herd in years. This isn't the 1980. We have unlimited advertising possibilities with social media.

You might love to hunt sheep and understand what it takes to protect them but if you think sending flyers to members of sheep clubs helps promote them to others hunters you have fallen off your rocker and hit your head I suspect

 

[Steve O]

You are an ornery little fella…I didn’t list all the FREE advertising for the raffles. You keep complaining and I will keep doing my part to promote and protect the wild sheep.

 

[Archer86]

You are an ornery little fella…I didn’t list all the FREE advertising for the raffles. You keep complaining and I will keep doing my part to promote and protect the wild sheep.

That's where you missed the point not complaining I want more advocates for sheep the wildsheep foundation has 11000 members roughly. Why so few?

Wyoming has 180000 point buyers for elk alone If we could figure out away to tap into those resources think what could be done for wild sheep. Auction are a not away to tap in to those funds it's just away to keep the auctions tags in the hands of the top 1 percent

 

[KurtR]

Hahah so alot more advertising to you is send flyers to some members of sheep clubs.

That's the funniest dam thing I have herd in years. This isn't the 1980. We have unlimited advertising possibilities with social media.

You might love to hunt sheep and understand what it takes to protect them but if you think sending flyers to members of sheep clubs helps promote them to others hunters you have fallen off your rocker and hit your head I suspect

I get the raffle tag advertising from Idaho every year. I bet they don’t get to mail those out for free. All the raffle tags added together for all species in South Dakota don’t bring near what the one auction sheep tag does here and they just killed the world record with a bow a few years ago here.

 

[Steve O]

That's where you missed the point not complaining I want more advocates for sheep the wildsheep foundation has 11000 members roughly. Why so few?

Wyoming has 180000 point buyers for elk alone If we could figure out away to tap into those resources think what could be done for wild sheep. Auction are a not away to tap in to those funds it's just away to keep the auctions tags in the hands of the top 1 percent

Ok. I see where you are coming from. BUT- how about we don’t take away the biggest money maker. Arizona screwed up big time. They took away their auction tag AND basically restricted their raffle to residents only. Stupid. It only hurts the sheep and the conservation organizations trying to help them aka ADBSS.

 

[406flyfish]

I think I’ve eaten enough #9 that I’ve contributed to half that tag.

 

[HuntHarder]

Ok. I see where you are coming from. BUT- how about we don’t take away the biggest money maker. Arizona screwed up big time. They took away their auction tag AND basically restricted their raffle to residents only. Stupid. It only hurts the sheep and the conservation organizations trying to help them aka ADBSS.

Time will tell with Az. I suspect you are wrong and you will not be able to provide any data to back up your claim of screwing up big time. When and if AZ's sheep population has a steep decline in the next 5 years I will gladly admit I was wrong and you were right.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Many have asked why I feel this is driving up sheep hunts in general. Admittedly I don’t know if it does. But what I do know is if that animal is a free range animal it belongs to the state and therefore the people. There is only a select few that can BUY that sheep; and they are buying it. As someone stated earlier if they did it as a raffle where ticket prices were affordable to mot average hunters and limit the number of tickets that an individual could buy, then I wouldn’t have an issue with it.

I do find it ironic that some condemn high fence hunting but applaud a hunt like this.


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[BBob]

Do we know where this money really ends up? Or just goes to the government agency?

Already went down that rabbit hole in a previous thread earlier this year.

 

[Steve O]

Many have asked why I feel this is driving up sheep hunts in general. Admittedly I don’t know if it does. But what I do know is if that animal is a free range animal it belongs to the state and therefore the people. There is only a select few that can BUY that sheep; and they are buying it. As someone stated earlier if they did it as a raffle where ticket prices were affordable to mot average hunters and limit the number of tickets that an individual could buy, then I wouldn’t have an issue with it.

I do find it ironic that some condemn high fence hunting but applaud a hunt like this.


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Maybe it is because the funds from this one tag go to the betterment of the species and habitat while the high fence monies go to the scumbag that own the pen.

The funds from the raffles do not compare to the funds from the auction no matter how so many feel they do. The object is to take ONE tag and maximize the funds coming from that. The raffles do not do that and that has been proven universally for 20 plus years.

 

[cuerro viejo]

That's where you missed the point not complaining I want more advocates for sheep the wildsheep foundation has 11000 members roughly. Why so few?

Wyoming has 180000 point buyers for elk alone If we could figure out away to tap into those resources think what could be done for wild sheep. Auction are a not away to tap in to those funds it's just away to keep the auctions tags in the hands of the top 1 percent

Many have asked why I feel this is driving up sheep hunts in general. Admittedly I don’t know if it does. But what I do know is if that animal is a free range animal it belongs to the state and therefore the people. There is only a select few that can BUY that sheep; and they are buying it. As someone stated earlier if they did it as a raffle where ticket prices were affordable to mot average hunters and limit the number of tickets that an individual could buy, then I wouldn’t have an issue with it.

I do find it ironic that some condemn high fence hunting but applaud a hunt like this.


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here you go. How many did either of you buy this year?

2024 NM Bighorn Raffle Information – New Mexico Chapter of the Wild Sheep Foundation

www.nmwildsheep.org

most sheep hunts are 100% success regardless of diy or outfitted.

 

[Archer86]

The funds from the raffles do not compare to the funds from the auction no matter how so many feel they do. The object is to take ONE tag and maximize the funds coming from that. The raffles do not do that and that has been proven universally for 20 plus yeyears.

It has been done in a very poor fashion for 20 years with technology we have now for advertising if done correctly I suspect we could have a very different out come but the king doesn't want his sheep gone so they will continue to keep pushing this idea that raffle tags don't produce as much money and use examples of raffle tags with a few flyers are sent out and maybe some limited advertising. But if you actually get some well known names to promote it and give it some time and advertise it with high traffic forums we could beat the record earned with a raffle tag in one year for sheep tags

 

[Archer86]

here you go. How many did either of you buy this year?

2024 NM Bighorn Raffle Information – New Mexico Chapter of the Wild Sheep Foundation

www.nmwildsheep.org

most sheep hunts are 100% success regardless of diy or outfitted.

I wouldn't buy a single one that's just a bonus point auction tag. Cap them at a single purchase and you will get way more interest