Issues with new knight ultralight

[Idaholewis]

Interesting, so even for the thor bullets I should add a wad? Even though they have the cupped skirt? Thank you guys again, I'm going to try and hit the range tmrw

NO, You don’t want a Wad of ANY Kind With a Skirted (Powder Cup) Jacketed Bullet, There is no need there, a Wad in that Case would likely cause all kinds of Problems

Use wads on FLAT Base Bullets

 

[Fingerlakeshunter]

Thank you for all the info lewis!

 

[Idaholewis]

Thank you for all the info lewis!

Happy to help ya anyway i can

 

[txhunter581]

I agree that a wad is good to use for the flat based bullets. However, I doubt that is the whole problem. That should improve accuracy a little but the problems you are seeing are more severe than can be explained by that. So I cross my fingers that will fix your problem but I doubt it will

One thing I would change: DO NOT SWAB THE BORE at all Between shots when using BH209. There is no need. I have shot as many as 30 shots at a session without swabbing once. I am worried you are causing some kind of a problem by doing that. Remember that regular “black powder cleaners are water based products, whereas those for BH209 are oil based. I would not want to be swabbing the barrel with an oil based product even when followed by a dry patch. And if you are using a water based product to swab (or spit) just remember that oil and water don’t mix!
Just don’t swab at all this session and see what happens. It’s one of the reasons I use BH 209. SO much less work to shoot.

 

[txhunter581]

I cross my fingers that one of these suggestions solves your problem. But it sounds like you may have a more serious issue and you may need to call Knight.

this rifle doesn’t have a false muzzle does it?

 

[Fingerlakeshunter]

I cross my fingers that one of these suggestions solves your problem. But it sounds like you may have a more serious issue and you may need to call Knight.

this rifle doesn’t have a false muzzle does it?

im not sure what a false muzzle is. range day did not go well, a clean breech plug would not ignite my load. have no idea whats happening there now. primers were Rio 209s. first range session CCI 209 magnums would not work. ran to the store and grabbed some 777 primers, hopefully they will work. ill clean up my breech tongiht and head back to the range tmrw. this rifle is a nightmare.

 

[ENCORE]

im not sure what a false muzzle is. range day did not go well, a clean breech plug would not ignite my load. have no idea whats happening there now. primers were Rio 209s. first range session CCI 209 magnums would not work. ran to the store and grabbed some 777 primers, hopefully they will work. ill clean up my breech tongiht and head back to the range tmrw. this rifle is a nightmare.

Your Knight does not have a false muzzle. Forget about it.

Are you chipping the carbon out of the flash channel? Carbon will build up and create ignition system problems, such as FTF or HF.

DO NOT allow lubricant into the flash hole and channel on your breech plug after cleaning. Before you load a charge, fire 2 primers ONLY, by themselves (safely) to clear the flash hole.

The T7 primers you purchased are the wrong primers for BH209.

The CCI209M will work perfectly, but not if the flash hole is full of carbon. This problem has been known for quite some time.

Do NOT use wet patches to clean between shots. Some rifles may never need swabbing between rounds when shooting BH209......... but others do. If you're going to swab between shots, use a 50/50 mixture of Hoppe's and 91% alcohol with only a EVER SO SLIGHTLY DAMP patch. Not wet. Follow the ever so slightly damp patch with at minimum 1 dry patch, better yet 2 dry patches.

IIRC......... the Knight breech plug has a 1/8" flash channel. Take a 1/8" drill bit..... TURNED BY HAND..... and chip out the carbon from the flash channel. You'll know when you reach the bottom of the channel.

 

[Fingerlakeshunter]

Dude encore thanks for the tip, I was just using the brush knight sent with cleaning kit, so much dang crud came out of there!
I've been using Thompson presoaked patches for my wet patch, they are soaking wet with whatever the substance is on it, i take it thats not helping.
Dry patches it is. I went with the wets after seeing the lead on a patch from the NE. I'm going to shoot the thor sized to my barrel next.
Tmrw at the range I will implement your advice and report back, your help is greatly appreciated, I do not have anyone around me to help me out with this stuff. This is my first muzz, and I am the only muzz hunter I know. Thank you again

 

[txhunter581]

Re-read Encores post several times. Lots of good info there.
But the most important after using. The drill bit is don’t use the 777 primers! They are reduced in power for use with 777 powder only. They won’t ignite BH powder.

Good luck.

 

[ENCORE]

Dude encore thanks for the tip, I was just using the brush knight sent with cleaning kit, so much dang crud came out of there!
I've been using Thompson presoaked patches for my wet patch, they are soaking wet with whatever the substance is on it, i take it thats not helping.
Dry patches it is. I went with the wets after seeing the lead on a patch from the NE. I'm going to shoot the thor sized to my barrel next.
Tmrw at the range I will implement your advice and report back, your help is greatly appreciated, I do not have anyone around me to help me out with this stuff. This is my first muzz, and I am the only muzz hunter I know. Thank you again

You're welcome.

That most likely was the reason for all your FTF or HF's. That's a lot of crud to come out of that flash channel. Now that you know about it, keep the channel clean and after every session.

I've shot BH209 since it hit the market, so much so that its scary to think of how much I've spent and used. I only buy it in 5# containers. When I'm shooting it, I'll go through 5# in 3 months or less.

Here's some more info....... There are some who say BH ignites with a bullet seated lightly on the propellant. That's fine for them and I'm glad it works for them. However, I prefer to seat the bullet hard on the propellant. My processes over many thousands of rounds has always worked. I've never had a FTF or HF when shooting BH209.

If it were me and I intended on shooting bullet to bore with Thor bullets, I'd shoot that bullet with and without a wool wad to determine if it shot better with or without. Yes, any flat based bullets you shoot, you should be using a wad with BH209.

Good luck

 

[OctoberGold]

Blackhorn recommends cleaning the flash hole with a torch tip cleaner. If you had that much build up in you may want to clean that out as well.

 

[ENCORE]

fingerlakeshunter.............. You should consider contacting Jeff Fisk at Bestill Creations and have him help you out with a new breech plug. He's perfected the Knight breech plug. Those in the know shooting Knight rifles, use a Bestill Creations breech plug.

Just an opinion, but its the first thing I'd do to a Knight.

 

[sabotloader]

Jeff's breech plug or actually breech plugs are a work of art. But... if you were to get a new Lehigh plug and vent liner for your rifle you would also have an excellent setup. And it does not cost near as much. The plug looks exactly like a Knight plug but it is made from 17-4 SS instead of 416SS that Knight uses. Plus, the vent liner is removable to allow easy cleaning of the BP itself

SSK Firearms - Barrels | Firearm Components | Ammo | Bullets

sskfirearms.lehighdefense.com

SSK Firearms - Barrels | Firearm Components | Ammo | Bullets

sskfirearms.lehighdefense.com

And a primer adapter if you have a Knight bolt with the FPJ (Red plastic jacket ignition) - if you have the bare primer bolt face you do not need the primer adapter

SSK Firearms - Barrels | Firearm Components | Ammo | Bullets

sskfirearms.lehighdefense.com

It is really easy to make this setup perfectly clean in the breech.

This is an example of the spent primers

 

[Fingerlakeshunter]

Thanks for the replies guys, just got back from the range

The good: my first shot went off and it hit exactly where I wanted it to!
The bad: the next 7 primers(CCI209M)did not ignite my charge
The ugly: while unloading my powder and bullet, pushing it through the rear, I think some 209 got into my trigger, and it is jammed up.

I'll give it a good cleaning tonight. We will see what other fun ways I can break it at tmrws range session!

I will order the new breech plug(s) tonight. I'll get both. Honestly just want this rifle to work, I don't care the cost.

Thank you guys again!

 

[Idaholewis]

Thanks for the replies guys, just got back from the range

The good: my first shot went off and it hit exactly where I wanted it to!
The bad: the next 7 primers(CCI209M)did not ignite my charge
The ugly: while unloading my powder and bullet, pushing it through the rear, I think some 209 got into my trigger, and it is jammed up.

I'll give it a good cleaning tonight. We will see what other fun ways I can break it at tmrws range session!

I will order the new breech plug(s) tonight. I'll get both. Honestly just want this rifle to work, I don't care the cost.

I feel much more confident after today that I can turn around this rifle, despite the setbacks

Thank you guys again!

Did you try the Over powder wads with the Lead Bullets?

 

[Fingerlakeshunter]

Did you try the Over powder wads with the Lead Bullets?

I haven't, only been able to fire it once and it was a thor sized to my barrel, .501

 

[txhunter581]

Just to tell you my routine:

First thing I do when I get to the range to shoot is swab the bore with a couple of dry patches. Then I pop off 2-3 primers to be sure any residual cleaner/oil is burned from the breech plug and barrel.. Then I am ready to load

Load with powder and bullet, and shoot. Without swabbing, reload and shoot. Without swabbing reload and shoot............. I have shot as many as 30 bullets in one session without swabbing once using both flat based bullets like No excuse and the rear bell bullets like Hornady FPB. If you use a Thor that is really tight, you might have to swab between shots, so then follow Encores instructions, but to me that removes one of the best reasons to use BH: NO SWABBING. That saves you lots of time and patches!

When I get home I remove the breech plug, clean out the rear pocket with a drill bit and soak in Hoppes #9 cleaner while I clean the barrel with Hoppes, a bore brush and patches. When I get the bore clean, I run multiple dry patches thru barrel and then use a light oil (Montana extreme) with a very light coat on a patch, and then one dry patch. That is all for the barrel

remove the breechplug from cleaner and use a toothbrush/cleaner on the rest of the plug. Then I dry as much of the cleaner off using dry patches including down in the rear pocket and then clean with hot soapy water, rinse well with hot water, and then dry throughly. I never put oil on the breechplug.

At this point I am ready to head back to the range and shoot next time, where I will run a couple dry patches down, pop off a couple of primers and load and shoot.

I say all that not to say that is the only way to clean BH from your gun, it is just a way that has worked for me. Find a method that works for you stick to it.

the reason I mention this is you have to be doing something wrong in cleaning your gun after shooting or something is going wrong between shoots. Most likely the reason you got hangfires/misfires is something was gumming up the breechplug, because it wasn't cleaned properly or that wouldn't have happened. Or if you are using any kind of moisture on a patch between shots, that could be causing a problem. Hope some of this helps

 

[Fingerlakeshunter]

clean up did not go well. the trigger is jammend terribly somehow. when i took the trigger off the barrel the hammer went off, cant figure out. i know a brand new gun on its 3rd time at the range should NOT be having this many issues, i have purchased a lemon. ill call knight tmrw, with the season so close, i dont know what to expect. so far i am beyond disappointed with this rifle. i have shot a total of 11 rounds out of it, the breech plug is totally unreliable even when clean and the triggers locked up.

 

[ENCORE]

Of course no one is there to actually watch what you may be doing, but if the primers are good, the BH hasn't been compromised, there's no reason that rifle should not have went off the second time. UNLESS.... you have been using way to much lubricant after cleaning, OR... there is a possibility that something might be wrong with the breech plug. I would rather first believe its something being done wrong before it being a bad OEM breech plug. However, stranger things have happened.

If you have to push a bullet and propellant out, push it out the barrel unless its not possible at all. Even pushing it out the barrel it ends up being a mess, but it doesn't push all the propellant into the trigger assembly. If you have to push it out the breech, remove the trigger assembly first.
Use a Hoppe's coated patch and cleaning jag and push it out the muzzle.

Make sure the stock is no where near then........Get some non-chlorinated brakleen and spray the hell out of the trigger assembly, which should dissolve any BH in the trigger assembly. Now, once you spray brakleen in that trigger, it removes ALL the lubricants.

DO NOT lubricate your trigger with oil. Re-lubricate the trigger assembly with lighter fluid. Lighter fluid contains just enough lubricant to lightly coat the trigger assembly without gumming it up. VERIFY IT WORKS PROPERLY.

If you plan on shooting the rifle the next day or today even, after cleaning it and making sure that the barrel is completely dry, don't lubricate it. Its not going to rust up or pit just over night. When you install the breech plug, if you're using grease, do not get it on the face of the breech plug.

Re-assemble the rifle and VERIFY that the trigger is working properly FIRST. If everything is working properly, then as mentioned prior, fire 3 primers only. Listen for any difference in the sound of the primers. All 3 primers should sound the same.
Load it with your normal charge and bullet. Don't swab between rounds and if you have to, to get following bullets loaded, use just a dry patch. If they're loading too tight where you have to drive them down in a fouled barrel, the bullets are sized wrong.

If the rifle doesn't shoot the following rounds after that process, then there is likely some kind of issue with the OEM breech plug. At that point, my personal preference would be to contact Jeff Fisk at Bestill Creations. The other plug mentioned will also work.

 

[FURMAN]

I gave up reading every post but there is some bad advise in here. DO NOT use wads with Thors. You should not be swabbing every shot. I would say cleaning every 5-8 shots would be plenty and your gun will tell you it needs cleaned when it either gets too hard to load or groups open up. I would call the owner of Thor for advise. Your charge weight seems low. I am running 110 grains of BH209 with 300 grain Thors in my Ultralight. I have found the breach plug to be somewhat particular with the preferred primers. I would suggest trying a few different primers.