1stRange day w/ Accura LR-X: Thor vs Hornady.FTX vs PowerBelt grops,etc. +Few questions for you pros.

[resident vs nonresident]

hey guys.
so i finally had a chance to take my new Muzzy out for the first time. Ultimately i was very very surprised/impressed by 1 bullet and not so much by the other that i had high hopes for.
i know that my SAMPLE pool is limited, but this is what i worked with. **i'll provide all the data as concise as possible below + pics.
i'll list few of my questions at the end, and hopefully i can get some feedback/suggestions/recommendations.

Accura LR-X .50cal / Vortex Diamondback Tactical 4-16x44 (Mrad)
Powder: BH209 / Primers: Cheddite CX2000 209
Bullets: 1. Hornady FTX 290gr vs 2. Thor Copper 300gr (.500 per sizing pack) vs 3. PowerBelt Copper 295gr
Powder Charges: 76gr (by weight) and in 78gr (by weight) Pre-measured at home using digital powder scale.
Target Distance: 100m (109yards) Elevation: 9,000'+ / Temp: 50F or so / Wind: was non-issue at this set up.
Shooting Platform: Bench w heavy shooting bags, so rifle was as solid as can be w/out going to a sled.

with all that said, i'll mention one more time: this was my very FIRST TIME shooting a muzzleloader.
i went into this range day with goal of settling on 1 of 3 what i thought were most popular/recommended bullets. *i hoped it would be Copper, but read on, and see how it went.

O i should mention what may be important to my questions later:
1. started with a brand new clean muzzy, that i had cleaned and ran rust-preventative patches through before putting it in a safe few month earlier. so that 1st shot was with a clean / oiled barrel. not sure if this made a diff?
2. i did "clean" two times when changing from one bullet to another, so every 7 shots (2 groups of 3, + 1 shot before groups just to foul the barrel up so groups following would be done under same conditions.) and when i say "CLEAN" between groups, i only ran Copper brush through the barrel few times - i did NOT use any barrel blaster/cleaner/oils/etc. only wired copper brush.

so here's how it went
1 shot to zero after bore sighting and it worked. my 1st shot (76gr by weight of H.FTX) got me on paper only few inches left/high of bullseye, few clicks and my next shots were all groups. ***and please only focus on Group size and not where it hit relative to bulls eye, etc. all AIM points were always the same for every group.

**Spoiler alert: Hornady won by a large margin.
1. Hornady FTX 290gr, BH209-76gr - resulted in 7/8' group, with 2 of the shots going nearly through the same hole.
2. Hornady FTX 290gr, BH209-78gr - resulted in .75" group!!!! again 2 or 3 shots were sharing a hole. *(that's better than many modern MOA rifles) i was blown away at this point that my very first 2 groups were both under an inch given its my first time shooting a Muzzy.
**wire brush cleaning before i moved on to next bullet -> THOR Copper 300gr

3. THOR Copper 300gr, BH209-76gr - resulted in 1 1/2" group, (just about 2" left of aim point").
4. THOR Copper 300gr, BH209-78gr - resulted in 1 5/8" group, (just about 1.5" left and 1.5" high of aim point)
**wire brush cleaning before i moved on to next bullet -> Powerbelt Copper 295gr

5. PB Copper 295gr, BH209-76gr - resulted in 1 1/2" group, (just about 1/2 right and 1" low of aim point)
6. PB Copper 295gr, BH209-78gr - resulted in 2 1/2" group, but i did pull on that 3rd shot (i was out of premeasured powder tubes), but this possibly could have been 1"

So here are my few questions for you PRO's.

1. How do i adjust/prepare for 1st cold bore shots when out on a hunt, knowing that gun was cleaned/oiled and was sitting in a safe before the hunt and it appears that 1st shot is always a bit off from the follow up group???
2. Should i burn more BH209 trying to chase and figure out if i can get COPPER bullets to group better?
3. Bullet selection: based on this sesh, i'm going to order more Hornady FTX and call it my main bullet choice. i was amazed at a 7/8" and 3/4" groups, and those were my very first 2 groups ever shooting a Muzzy.
4. Copper Option: i do want to keep Copper Option in case state regs require (and it may be the case for one of my tags). do i just go with PowerBelt 295gr Copper option as it show same as Thor and costs quite a bit less.
---- could different powder charge really make that big of difference shooting Copper, what would you recomend?

 

[cnelk]

I’ll only comment on your #1

I have always done a ‘squib’ fouling shot.
It’s typically a reduced load with a piece of paper balled up and pressed down on the powder.

The research I’ve done notes that all long range competition shooters will shoot 2-3 rounds before they start qualifying.
So I figured if it’s what they do, must be ok.

I will add that I will ‘dry patch’ clean the barrel between shots when I’m working on a load or sighting in.

Looks like you found a good recipe for your gun.

 

[resident vs nonresident]

I’ll only comment on your #1

I have always done a ‘squib’ fouling shot.
It’s typically a reduced load with a piece of paper balled up and pressed down on the powder.
Looks like you found a good recipe for your gun.

thanks,
do you do this only when at the range or when on hunts?
i guess my understanding is that it is NOT ok to leave a dirty muzzy barrel overnight, etc.

so lets say you go on a muzzleloader hunt, do you do a "squib" fouling shot every morning, and then you load up your normal powder charge /bullet for the day and go on hunting? or do you foul it the night before?
again, this whole Muzzleloading is new to me, so trying to figure out all the details.

 

[cnelk]

Not sure where you hunt, but in Colorado I do the squib shot and load the ML the night before and leave it loaded for 2-3 days - depending on weather.

One thing I will do is leave the gun in the truck at night and not bring it in to the camper/tent where it’s warm.
I don’t like to have to temperature variables on the gun.

 

[resident vs nonresident]

awesome thanks,

 

[Trout&Buck]

#4 makes it sound like you want to have a non lead option just in-case. As an FYI the powerbelt copper is copper plated lead, not solid copper, so it won't meet any non-tox requirements.

 

[resident vs nonresident]

#4 makes it sound like you want to have a non lead option just in-case. As an FYI the powerbelt copper is copper plated lead, not solid copper, so it won't meet any non-tox requirements.

Thanks for pointing it out. I did not realize that PB was lead core. I thought since it said COPPER in big letters that it was 100% copper. That rules it out.
I guess inhave my bullet selection done then.
FTX And Thor in rare case i need 100% copper. Thanks

 

[willfrye027]

You could try the Barnes muzzle loader bullets.

But honestly ask yourself how far can can this gun shoot realistically? 200? 300?

1 1/2” will not prevent you from making a vitals bit farther out there. I’d use the FTX and the off chance you need copper a 2in group is fine.

 

[resident vs nonresident]

You could try the Barnes muzzle loader bullets.

But honestly ask yourself how far can can this gun shoot realistically? 200? 300?

1 1/2” will not prevent you from making a vitals bit farther out there. I’d use the FTX and the off chance you need copper a 2in group is fine.

Yea ill stick with FTX and will do further testing. Ideally id like to get comfortable with it out to 200m maybe 300 (if scoped)
In CO with open sights id ljmit self to 200m
Ill look at Barnes

 

[willfrye027]

Yea ill stick with FTX and will do further testing. Ideally id like to get comfortable with it out to 200m maybe 300 (if scoped)
In CO with open sights id ljmit self to 200m
Ill look at Barnes

Yeah I don’t think with open sights you would really be able to notice the difference between those loads. And I don’t think charge weights will measurably change anything. Save that precious BH209!

 

[ElDiablito]

Most guys will foul the barrel before the season with BH209 and leave it fouled. I have left my rifles fouled and loaded for months. No issues in NV/CO/UT.

The Thors (made by Barnes) are a great bullet. If I were you I’d vary the charge a little and see if it would group a little better.

Yes, a different charge weight can make a big difference in dispersion (group size).

I’m a proponent of being thoughtful in picking a bullet for a particular job (animal) and then thinking about the likely shot distance range. Then varying the powder to make that bullet do what you want it to. The Powerbelts, for example, are just a soft blob of lead with a copper wash and not suitable IMO for elk or even bigger deer.

My other thought is that you’re working with small sample sizes here. A couple of three shot groups is not statistically significant. You may find with more shooting that there really isn’t that much difference in the dispersion patterns of those loads.

 

[OKHunter84]

I have shot a CVA Accura MR for years. I've always used 110 grains of BH209 (volume), 250 grain Barnes sabot and Fiocchi 209 primers. Very accurate and consistent load.

I confirm zero at the range every year, clean it with CVA bore blaster, brass brushes and patches. After it's clean I bust off about three caps and then load it back when I'm going hunting. I've left mine loaded for weeks like this with no issue. I've hunted in rainy and wet conditions and it still busted off. I've even admittedly left it loaded (without a primer) in-between hunting seasons and it still busted off the next year.

Did you use the sizing kit from Thor? Might need to step it up a little larger. You could try that or back your powder charge off to 70 grains weighed and see what happens.

 

[resident vs nonresident]

I have shot a CVA Accura MR for years. I've always used 110 grains of BH209 (volume), 250 grain Barnes sabot and Fiocchi 209 primers. Very accurate and consistent load.

I confirm zero at the range every year, clean it with CVA bore blaster, brass brushes and patches. After it's clean I bust off about three caps and then load it back when I'm going hunting. I've left mine loaded for weeks like this with no issue. I've hunted in rainy and wet conditions and it still busted off. I've even admittedly left it loaded (without a primer) in-between hunting seasons and it still busted off the next year.

Did you use the sizing kit from Thor? Might need to step it up a little larger. You could try that or back your powder charge off to 70 grains weighed and see what happens.

Good to hear that leaving it loaded short term does not ruin the barrel.
Hey when you say you “pop off 3 caps”. You are saying you fire off 3’primers and nothing else and then put it away slightly fouled?
Thanks
for my Thor 300gr i did use sizing pack. .500 is what fits (fairly well and slides down the barrel with minimal resistance which made it easier to load than other bulleta). But….. when i tried size pack .501 did not fit. I couldnt even get it started to go down an inch. So .500’is only thing that fits. I deff plan on trying slightly higher loads as you recommended. Thinking 80-84gr (by weight, 84 max recommendation by BH209)
Thanks

 

[OKHunter84]

Good to hear that leaving it loaded short term does not ruin the barrel.
Hey when you say you “pop off 3 caps”. You are saying you fire off 3’primers and nothing else and then put it away slightly fouled?
Thanks
for my Thor 300gr i did use sizing pack. .500 is what fits (fairly well and slides down the barrel with minimal resistance which made it easier to load than other bulleta). But….. when i tried size pack .501 did not fit. I couldnt even get it started to go down an inch. So .500’is only thing that fits. I deff plan on trying slightly higher loads as you recommended. Thinking 80-84gr (by weight, 84 max recommendation by BH209)
Thanks

Yes sir, I just foul with a few caps and it's always worked for me. That's what my dad showed me to do. I'm sure there will be someone say that you have to shoot a certain amount of powder and click your heels together three times or something to contradict me.

You probably know this, but the Thor bullet website says the following:

When you find the diameter that requires about 20/30 ft./lbs. of force to push down the barrel (that is comparable to the resistance you get loading a standard sabot bullet), you have found the correct size for your rifle.

Maybe if it's sliding too easy then it's not good for your rifle.

 

[resident vs nonresident]

Yes sir, I just foul with a few caps and it's always worked for me. That's what my dad showed me to do. I'm sure there will be someone say that you have to shoot a certain amount of powder and click your heels together three times or something to contradict me.

You probably know this, but the Thor bullet website says the following:

When you find the diameter that requires about 20/30 ft./lbs. of force to push down the barrel (that is comparable to the resistance you get loading a standard sabot bullet), you have found the correct size for your rifle.

Maybe if it's sliding too easy then it's not good for your rifle.

Cool thanks.
.500 is the only one that fit. I just dont know if its loading under 20/30lbs or 5/10? I just push it and it works.
.501 i cant even get it seated down an inch. So that wont work

 

[ElDiablito]

Thors are very easy to size. The skirt portion is the variable - the shank of the bullet is the same among the sizes they sell.

Here’s a thread on sizing.

Custom sizing Thor Bullets

"Guys, I just got my order of Thors in today and they are to small! My season starts next week and there's no way I will have time to send them back and get the right size. Any ideas?! " It seems that we run into this issue from time to time and so I took some pictures and will show you how to...

www.modernmuzzleloader.com