Issues with hiring a plumber

[basket8]

He shouldn't have left a mess. But, if you didn't agree to a price up front that's on you.

Also, if a homeowner calls me and says anything along the lines of, "I did xyz myself to save some money and I just need you to come do this minor thing so I can finish." it's usually a pretty big red flag for me. 99% of homeowners have zero idea of what they're doing and it makes almost everything harder because you've got to unscrew half of what they've done so you can halfa** make everything else right. If they really knew what they were doing, they wouldn't have called in the first place.

I'm interested in what the OP does for a living and if the job was so easy to do why he just didn't finish it up himself.

I think were getting away from my original question, I asked if it was unreasonable to get an itemized list of the $800 worth of materials I paid for to go in my home. I never said it was easy either, in fact I said there were some unusual things I wanted a professional to handle. I also never did anything myself, I bought materials and had them sitting there. 2 days after completing the job one of the drains was leaking, a fitting on the P trap was loose, I tightened it and no more leak. For $1800 I would at least think they could tighten their fittings.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

I think were getting away from my original question, I asked if it was unreasonable to get an itemized list of the $800 worth of materials I paid for to go in my home. I never said it was easy either, in fact I said there were some unusual things I wanted a professional to handle. I also never did anything myself, I bought materials and had them sitting there. 2 days after completing the job one of the drains was leaking, a fitting on the P trap was loose, I tightened it and no more leak. For $1800 I would at least think they could tighten their fittings.

So, you bought all the material yourself, so they had no markup on that. $1000 for labor is not out of the normal.

 

[basket8]

So, you bought all the material yourself, so they had no markup on that. $1000 for labor is not out of the normal.

Negative. I bought SOME material, they had to buy an additional $800 worth, including markup. This fella that I replied to seemed like he implying I had tried to do it myself then hired someone to fix it.

 

[stanginthe11s]

@5miles, hopefully that fernco is easily accessible as they don't last forever. since you got pin holes in copper pipe I'm guessing you're running a water softener, if you are then be aware that soft water eats copper pipe as well as any other metal lines/fittings so pin holes may be a sign.

OP, no you're not unreasonable for wanting an itemized list of materials. in fact it is law that if asked he must provide a materials list. as far as markup goes, its a gray area. it pretty normal to mark up prices which covers the act of procuring said materials, but if a markup is overly high (above norm) then it can be argued however it usually cost more to fight it than pay it. also, keep in mind a business is not required to "shop" at any particular store, so just because you can find an item for $10 at the depot doesn't mean he did.​

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Negative. I bought SOME material, they had to buy an additional $800 worth, including markup. This fella that I replied to seemed like he implying I had tried to do it myself then hired someone to fix it.

Understand now. I still don't think it was out of line $$$$. somewhere during this post, I think you said one day labor with one helper, that comes out to $125/ hour., very reasonable. You should demand a breakdown of materials he used above what you supplied. The mess is unacceptable.

 

[Steve300xcw]

I just skimmed through this thread, so I'm sure I missed something. But $1k labor for 2 guys for the day isnt bad. A quick half day job can snowball into a day or more pretty easy. Have you asked why it took a full day to do the job?

Same for the 40% mark up on parts, that isnt unreasonable. I have yet to hear of anybody that is less than a 30% mark up on parts. Totally different business, but I have quite a bit more mark up than that. End of the month and there isnt near the money in the bank as most folks would like to think.

just because you can find an item for $10 at the depot doesn't mean he did.

I deal with this every day. Guys spend a week searching the internet for the cheapest POS they can find online, and then want me to match the price but with quality parts LOL. It has gotten to the point where if the customer says anything about "wanting to keep my money local" I know that, that phone call is just a waste of my time.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

When I retired, eleven years ago as a union A/C tech. we were billing at $125/hour, so, $125 now days seems real reasonable. But what do I know, I'm just an old retired A/C mech.

 

[Steve300xcw]

I imagine it really depends on the area. Heck theres shops around here that are at $200/hr

 

[S.Clancy]

I’ve done a fair amount of trade work as fill in between fisheries jobs before I got my life together and became an engineer (hard sarcasm). I’ll do my best to explain why trades charge so much.

I trimmed our upstairs this weekend. It’s an older house, I affectionately call it “this old POS“. Nothing is straight anymore, if it ever was. We also don’t have AC, we just live downstairs in the summer, upstairs in the winter. It was 102F Saturday, 98 Sunday. The upstairs was 80-87 degrees, no air movement. Trim, no matter how good you are (and I am not the best, but fair) requires lots of cuts, and therefore bending, walking, crouching, dragging your carcass across the floor, all day. I hated nearly ever single second. And I would much rather trim than plumb, or frame, or a lot of that other crap. If it weren’t for my pathological frugality I would have paid huge sums of $$$ about 2hrs in Saturday. So I get it when they charge huge sums, that work sucks

 

[GSPHUNTER]

I’ve done a fair amount of trade work as fill in between fisheries jobs before I got my life together and became an engineer (hard sarcasm). I’ll do my best to explain why trades charge so much.

I trimmed our upstairs this weekend. It’s an older house, I affectionately call it “this old POS“. Nothing is straight anymore, if it ever was. We also don’t have AC, we just live downstairs in the summer, upstairs in the winter. It was 102F Saturday, 98 Sunday. The upstairs was 80-87 degrees, no air movement. Trim, no matter how good you are (and I am not the best, but fair) requires lots of cuts, and therefore bending, walking, crouching, dragging your carcass across the floor, all day. I hated nearly ever single second. And I would much rather trim than plumb, or frame, or a lot of that other crap. If it weren’t for my pathological frugality I would have paid huge sums of $$$ about 2hrs in Saturday. So I get it when they charge huge sums, that work sucks

What are you referring to when you say, trim?

 

[roymunson]

Can't you always just not work 50-60 hours tho? Like work 30, make bank, go fishing a lot?

I like nice fishing rods and guns

 

[jg58]

Im not sure if im just naive to the plumbing industry or if im getting screwed by a plumber I just hired. I hired a plumber to hook up 3 new vanities in a house im remodeling. I probably could have done this myself but time is running out and there were some unusual things I wanted a professional to handle ( replaced a single sink vanity with double sink, and a couple other things).

Anyway, the total bill ended up being $1800. $1000 in labor, and nearly $800 in materials. I went in the house to check the work and 3 lights were left on, piss was left in the toilet along with a dip. mud and dirt all over my brand new floors... All that aside my invoice only read "materials" with none of the parts listed out. I asked the plumber for an itemized list of parts or receipts and he replied they dont do that and that parts are marked up.

Am I out of line for asking for at least an itemized list or receipts or is that just how the plumbing business operates? Overall I was not expecting what I thought would be a relatively simple job to cost so much.

Absolutely not,very unprofessional

 

[stanginthe11s]

my go to answer for trim work is "caulk will fix it" lol.

I imagine it really depends on the area. Heck theres shops around here that are at $200/hr

here the price is 250$ to show up, then the clock starts for hourly. so if no work is done regardless of reason, you will pay 250 plus tax. and that is also the hourly rate. on the material markup, not uncommon to see double the price on small items as far up as 20$ actual. the more expensive an item is, the less markup you will have. what I will say about here is the job gets done quick. 8 hrs here usually means you're getting the whole house replumbed lol.

 

[Steve300xcw]

here the price is 250$ to show up, then the clock starts for hourly. so if no work is done regardless of reason, you will pay 250 plus tax. and that is also the hourly rate. on the material markup, not uncommon to see double the price on small items as far up as 20$ actual. the more expensive an item is, the less markup you will have.

I believe it. Gotta figure on an hour worth of driving, plus getting the truck stocked up and fueled....

It is interesting to see the comments about the hourly rate and the parts markup.. I bet those same people have a closet full of sitka gear and name brand packs though LOL

 

[stanginthe11s]

@basket8, we dont know the extent of work that was done, so im going to say this under the assumption of a typical job.
it is very hard to get to 800$ in materials even if the materials were doubled. there really isnt much that goes into doing 3 vanities. one thing that I want to question about the cost, did this "plumber" use sharkbites? they are expensive relative to the right way and could explain the high cost.

 

[5MilesBack]

@5miles, hopefully that fernco is easily accessible as they don't last forever. since you got pin holes in copper pipe I'm guessing you're running a water softener

Easily accessible and visible......unfinished basement. No water softener......all of us hate soft water.

 

[S.Clancy]

What are you referring to when you say, trim?

Interior trim, primarily baseboard

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Interior trim, primarily baseboard

got it.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I'm not arguing the excavation rate, $350 to dig that hole that would have taken me a week with my shovel.......priceless. It was the plumber that worked two hours and charged $1200 just for those two hours of labor. I get it.......they can and do charge more for fixed price jobs than an hourly rate. But on the other hand, several years ago we had a 3" copper drain line that developed pin hole leaks. The plumber came out and cut out the 90 degree elbow and maybe 3" of copper pipe on each side and replaced it with PVC and attached a couple Fernco couplings, and charged us for 3 hours work. After getting a little experience with this stuff, I (and most people) could have done that job in 20 minutes. I realize they have business expenses to pay for, but my goodness.......$600/hr on one job, and 3 hours for a 20 min job on another? Sheesh

As I said earlier, I don’t know the situation. I just know that when home owners go to figuring about how much it should cost versus how much it does cost, they rarely take nothing but their money into account. And refuse to acknowledge that while he may have only been there a few hours, unless you bought and hauled everything for him, he’s got more time in it then what you are seeing.

I’ll also say this too. Home owners expect you to come do the work. Regardless of what it takes away from. I get calls all the time to come fix leaking roofs. From a lot of people who thought I was too high initially. They hired a “cheaper” alternative.

I used to go fix them. Most only take a couple hours if that. Yet, they want to give me $100. $100 won’t buy a tank of fuel. Yet, that’s what they expect. Screw up a half or whole day. I can’t work for $100 a day. Neither can you or anyone else who owns a home, vehicles, etc….

I’m not demanding the guy was right and you were wrong. But, I hear this stuff all the time. If it were that easy and fast to fix as you say, don’t worry about it. He won’t last long.

Just remember that it sounds like giving up a days pay to fix your pipes is something you expected/expect him to do. Trade places with him for a moment. Would you do that? If you did you’d better make it a special event. Or, you wouldn’t be in business long.

That’s my point. I’m not saying you were all wrong. I’m saying the worlds full of people that know how to do these things. Yet, trade off of doing it so they do something else they want or need to do . That’s a two way street.

 

[displacedtexan]

I had a customer complain a little about my 4 hour minimum... I "only worked not quite 3 hours".

But she wouldn't let me start until 10, and I had no guarantee of how long it would take. It was the only money I made that day.