Plumber question - Basement wall water line penetration

[WV Mountaineer]

Without seeing the site I’d hate to guess at cost but in my town typically you can get your water and sewer lateral replaced for under 2000. That is digging a trench at least 7’ deep and typically 50-75’. Obviously location plays a role in pricing but damn that sounds expensive.

Yep, that equipment, trailers, truck to pull it with, fuel, material and labor are cheap.

Get the stuff and go for it. It won’t seem so cheap. Not being a wise guy. Just saying that’s a typical response from the homeowners perspective.

 

[hikenhunt]

I had this happen in our last house which was a split level. Outside line was poly and transitioned to copper inside. I rented a concrete saw and cut out a section to access the pipe. The pipe ran parallel to the house then turned 90 to penetrate the wall. The lazy guy that originally installed the poly decided to heat it and do a tight 90 bend with the pipe into the house. Well it worked for a while, until I started getting the drip inside. Mine was much shallower, maybe 2-2.5' deep. But I was able to fix it myself with the help of my father-in-law with an actual 90 bend fitting. I wrapped the pipe and filled the rest of the penetration with hydraulic cement. There wasn't anything around the pipe previously. Worked for a few years then we sold the house.

I am not a plumber and my father-in-law plumbed his house which has had several leaks over the years, so take my experience with a grain of salt!

 

[shader112]

I was able to have a guy meet me home after work and take a look. He said the line has too many bends/not a straight shot so pulling a new pipe won't work. He said he can dig it all up, dispose of concrete, put a new poly pipe from home to meter, backfill for $3,200. And haul off a pile of concrete from a previous project.

I have another guy coming out tomorrow to give me a price on pretty much same thing. He said he thinks somewhere around 2,500 but wanted to see it.

I can get a mini x for a day for 400, materials maybe 250, disposal 100 at the dump. So definitely under 1000 on my cost. Just run the risk of having trouble sealing up the wall or tieing into the city meter. Seems pretty do-able

 

[RS_Non-Res]

I had a plumber send compressed air through the water pipe and then he listened for bubbly sounds under the floor using a stereo stethoscope. He located our leak to within 4 inches.

For repairing leaks in that iron service line...consider why it's leaking and whether you should just replace the whole line or patch leaks every couple of years.

My neighbor had a 3/4" poly line (pex?) inserted into his leaky 1-inch copper service line...meter to house. Result was less flow/pressure but little digging and no more leaks.

Just saw your new post...does the meter owner require licenced/bond/certified tech to do the hookup?

 

[yfarm]

Had old iron water pipe coming into my house, water company thought their line was leaking, turned out it was on my side of the meter. Plumber found a leak about 6 ft from the meter, was original pipe from the 1950s, said not to repair, had a directional driller run new pvc across the yard down a slope and came into the basement at the same level but 3 ft away from the original, about a 200 ft run, amazing work. $7000.

 

[Elmer J. Fudd]

Yep, that equipment, trailers, truck to pull it with, fuel, material and labor are cheap.

Get the stuff and go for it. It won’t seem so cheap. Not being a wise guy. Just saying that’s a typical response from the homeowners perspective.

I work for the water utility in a community of 2300. That is the price with the local plumbers. They are usually done in about 4 hours. Now if I go an hour away there is a town of a 100000 and I have no doubt the price goes up. Having no idea where the op lives I was offering an alternative to pipe bursting. That isn’t done by many contractors here but the ones that do it charge a premium because of the extra work they save you. OP sound like a guy that doesn’t mind sweating so he could possibly save some money by letting guys do the pipe work and finishing the landscaping on his own. Case of do you have more time or money.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I work for the water utility in a community of 2300. That is the price with the local plumbers. They are usually done in about 4 hours. Now if I go an hour away there is a town of a 100000 and I have no doubt the price goes up. Having no idea where the op lives I was offering an alternative to pipe bursting. That isn’t done by many contractors here but the ones that do it charge a premium because of the extra work they save you. OP sound like a guy that doesn’t mind sweating so he could possibly save some money by letting guys do the pipe work and finishing the landscaping on his own. Case of do you have more time or money.

I understand. Almost 50 times bigger most certainly sees demand driven pricing. I don’t know how that applies to the OP either. But, I do in my area.

 

[Customweld]

How long of a run is it from the back leg of the meter setter to your wall? If your line is black iron or old galvy, this will more than likely be the first of many leaks. You might be money ahead to rent a mini and run yourself a new 250psi poly line with a curb stop behind the meter tub, so you can isolate your line if you ever need to. Most water purveyors frown on you getting into their meter tubs and operating their curb or angle stop. As for the wall penetration, I would over size the hole a little bit so you can get a good wrap of non shrink grout around the pipe.
The reason I would go with 250psi poly is you can use high quality compression fittings from someone like Ford or A.Y. McDonald.
The 3200 quote from your first contractor isn't out of line, depending on what pipe materials he uses.
If you decide to do it yourself, be sure to call in locates.

 

[shader112]

I had a plumber send compressed air through the water pipe and then he listened for bubbly sounds under the floor using a stereo stethoscope. He located our leak to within 4 inches.

For repairing leaks in that iron service line...consider why it's leaking and whether you should just replace the whole line or patch leaks every couple of years.

My neighbor had a 3/4" poly line (pex?) inserted into his leaky 1-inch copper service line...meter to house. Result was less flow/pressure but little digging and no more leaks.

Just saw your new post...does the meter owner require licenced/bond/certified tech to do the hookup?

That's a smart idea, 3/4" through the 1". My house is a 2 bed 1 bath so I don't think 3/4 would be a deal breaker.

The city guys I talked to this morning didn't say anything about requiring a certified tech when I told them I was doing it. I don't think they will check up on it

 

[shader112]

I work for the water utility in a community of 2300. That is the price with the local plumbers. They are usually done in about 4 hours. Now if I go an hour away there is a town of a 100000 and I have no doubt the price goes up. Having no idea where the op lives I was offering an alternative to pipe bursting. That isn’t done by many contractors here but the ones that do it charge a premium because of the extra work they save you. OP sound like a guy that doesn’t mind sweating so he could possibly save some money by letting guys do the pipe work and finishing the landscaping on his own. Case of do you have more time or money.

I live meteo east of St. Louis in illinois. Shit here is expensive compared to smallish town I'm from. I think the population within 25 miles of me is close to 2 mil

 

[shader112]

How long of a run is it from the back leg of the meter setter to your wall? If your line is black iron or old galvy, this will more than likely be the first of many leaks. You might be money ahead to rent a mini and run yourself a new 250psi poly line with a curb stop behind the meter tub, so you can isolate your line if you ever need to. Most water purveyors frown on you getting into their meter tubs and operating their curb or angle stop. As for the wall penetration, I would over size the hole a little bit so you can get a good wrap of non shrink grout around the pipe.
The reason I would go with 250psi poly is you can use high quality compression fittings from someone like Ford or A.Y. McDonald.
The 3200 quote from your first contractor isn't out of line, depending on what pipe materials he uses.
If you decide to do it yourself, be sure to call in locates.

It's about 40 feet including some curves. After talking to the excavator that stopped by today, I learned that it is 1" poly through the wall all the way to the meter. He could tell buy looking at the little bit stubbed through the wall. I thought it was iron.

I think that is the deciding factor for me. I should be able to dig up and put a compression fitting on and run a couple feet of new poly through the wall. I talked to a neighbor that told me the supply house in town i can get those fittings from. Tape it and water plug and be done. I don't want to throw 3k at it.

I could throw a sprinkler on it tomorrow and might not even need the mini x if it softens up.

 

[Customweld]

It's about 40 feet including some curves. After talking to the excavator that stopped by today, I learned that it is 1" poly through the wall all the way to the meter. He could tell buy looking at the little bit stubbed through the wall. I thought it was iron.

I think that is the deciding factor for me. I should be able to dig up and put a compression fitting on and run a couple feet of new poly through the wall. I talked to a neighbor that told me the supply house in town i can get those fittings from. Tape it and water plug and be done. I don't want to throw 3k at it.

I could throw a sprinkler on it tomorrow and might not even need the mini x if it softens up.

It's odd that it has a leak. Unless it's polybutylene and not polyethylene . Poly-B has a tendency to become brittle over time. It has a tendency to split horizontal along the sides of the pipe.

 

[shader112]

It's odd that it has a leak. Unless it's polybutylene and not polyethylene . Poly-B has a tendency to become brittle over time. It has a tendency to split horizontal along the sides of the pipe.

The sidewalk next to the foundation has settled a good amount. I suspect the settling has pinched it or at the least put enough pressure on it to crack. I do not know what kind of poly it is. I plan on cutting a length of it out to take to the supply house to make sure I get the right fitting and new poly. I doubt the print on the side of it will be legible but I'll check

 

[Customweld]

The sidewalk next to the foundation has settled a good amount. I suspect the settling has pinched it or at the least put enough pressure on it to crack. I do not know what kind of poly it is. I plan on cutting a length of it out to take to the supply house to make sure I get the right fitting and new poly. I doubt the print on the side of it will be legible but I'll check

Poly B should have a PB2110 stamped on the side. Poly E will have the SDR rating (SDR7 is pretty common) along with the psi rating. Poly B was installed up until about 1995. There was probably some installed after that, but it was largely discontinued around then.

 

[shader112]

Poly B should have a PB2110 stamped on the side. Poly E will have the SDR rating (SDR7 is pretty common) along with the psi rating. Poly B was installed up until about 1995. There was probably some installed after that, but it was largely discontinued around then.

I'll check. It was built in 1998-1999.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

I'm thinking the leak is where the copper passes thru the concrete. Very minor vibration ( every time you run the water the line vibrates) over years will wear a hole in the copper where it is contact with concrete. You may not even be able to detect any vibration, but it's there. In any event, you will need to do some digging to get to the line to solder new copper to existing underground line and replace copper regardless of where leak is. then seal penetration as Alpinebeard recommended.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

That's a smart idea, 3/4" through the 1". My house is a 2 bed 1 bath so I don't think 3/4 would be a deal breaker.

The city guys I talked to this morning didn't say anything about requiring a certified tech when I told them I was doing it. I don't think they will check up on it

The biggest issue with any house is volume. People get hung up on psi at the faucet mouth. But, if you don’t have the volume with enough psi, you will wish you did. The water line coming in should be 1 inch. Run that through the wall and convert it to 3/4”. Run 3/4” as you run and stud up 1/2” to each fixture. You’ll have plenty of pressure. And volume.




The first time you are running the water hose outside, your wife is doing laundry, and someone is showering, you’ll be glad you did it that way.

 

[shader112]

As suspected the leak is in the wall. The geniuses that installed the original put a sharp bend into it entering the wall. And actually on the inside the copper pipe is off center pulling the poly into even more of bend inside the wall. I'm surprised it lasted this long.

It took me about 6 hours to break up that concrete and dig down. Lots of work but I'm eating steak tonight.

Now to find some tubing and a fitting. And decide if I want to bore that hole out anymore so I can pack it. What tool do they use to bore say a 2" hole? I've got the normal stuff but no hammer drill or anything

 

[GSPHUNTER]

As suspected the leak is in the wall. The geniuses that installed the original put a sharp bend into it entering the wall. And actually on the inside the copper pipe is off center pulling the poly into even more of bend inside the wall. I'm surprised it lasted this long.

It took me about 6 hours to break up that concrete and dig down. Lots of work but I'm eating steak tonight.

Now to find some tubing and a fitting. And decide if I want to bore that hole out anymore so I can pack it. What tool do they use to bore say a 2" hole? I've got the normal stuff but no hammer drill or anything

If you have the right drill motor, rent a larger concrete bit, say, 2". Or use a chipping bit and attack from both sides. And, thanks for not inviting me over.

 

[shader112]

Another question for the brian trust. Is hydraulic cement used to maintain structural integrity of the wall? Why not use silicon and a hole just big enough for the pipe? Like 1 1/8"

I can't buy the fittings until Monday so plenty of time to ponder