Issues with hiring a plumber

[woods89]

I guess what ive learned from all this is that I should have been a plumber

Tell your kids.....

 

[roymunson]

I guess what ive learned from all this is that I should have been a plumber

go wake up and spend50-60 hours a week playing in someone else's sheet, try to fix the garbage job they attempted on their own, and keep some drunken helper on payroll who may show up tomorrow and may not...It ain't all easy breezy

 

[Dos Perros]

go wake up and spend50-60 hours a week playing in someone else's sheet, try to fix the garbage job they attempted on their own, and keep some drunken helper on payroll who may show up tomorrow and may not...It ain't all easy breezy

Can't you always just not work 50-60 hours tho? Like work 30, make bank, go fishing a lot?

 

[5MilesBack]

About 5 years ago my daughter was doing laundry and water started coming up between the foundation wall and the floor in the basement. It's only gray water from the laundry room and kitchen on that far end of a sprawling rancher. I called around and they were all about the same.......$1250 and that covered up to three feet of jackhammering and digging it out.

Well, I had no idea what was even wrong down there so hired a guy. He came and spent 2 hours total......jackhammering a two foot section, digging it out and replacing 18" of 2" line, and a 90 degree elbow. Filled it in, and threw some new concrete on top.......and left that rough.

$1250 for two hours work, 18" of 2" PVC, two PVC to cast iron couplings, a 90 degree elbow, and a bag of Quickcrete. SMH

So last year when I discovered more problems further down the drain lines, I figured the rest of all that cast iron pipe needed replacing too. So I bought a concrete saw, borrowed a jackhammer, and my daughter and I went to work. She sprayed the hose on the saw blade and dust while I cut. That was the worst part of this job. Everything else was pretty easy. Hired a buddy to dig out the sewer pipe under 6.5 feet of dirt with his track-hoe. Finished it all in three main sections sporadically over a few months and then did the concrete. Finished all that last Nov, and saved a ridiculous amount of money doing it ourselves. I also hired one of the drain clearing companies to come in and run their camera so we could mark all the lines and hub points before cutting.

All in cost me a little over $1500 including the concrete saw and excavation outside for replacing over 90 feet of pipe and connections. That's just over the plumber's 2 hour job total. Ridiculous.

 

[WeiserBucks]

In my neck of the woods I'd say you're lucky to have anyone show up and complete the job regardless of cost or the mess left behind. Everyone in my area is so busy that they can't take on new work even though they say they can and they're charging up the ass due to supply and demand. They know that they'll have more work tomorrow regardless of how poor a job they did today and the current environment just keeps the ball rolling.

Sooner or later it'll all come crashing down and those same Aholes will be forced to do a great job at a fair price due to honest competition for work or most of them will go out of business due to their own greed and lack of professionalism.

Recently needed to replace siding on my house, the only guy I could get to answer the phone and give me an estimate quoted $45k. Said he could have it finished in 5 days. I ended up doing it myself with help from a couple friends for <$18k. That equates to roughly $5.5k per day for labor based the contractors estimate, WTF?

Edited to correct my math.

 

[basket8]

In my neck of the woods I'd say you're lucky to have anyone show up and complete the job regardless of cost or the mess left behind. Everyone in my area is so busy that they can't take on new work even though they say they can and they're charging up the ass due to supply and demand. They know that they'll have more work tomorrow regardless of how poor a job they did today and the current environment just keeps the ball rolling.

Sooner or later it'll all come crashing down and those same Aholes will be forced to do a great job at a fair price due to honest competition for work or most of them will go out of business due to their own greed and lack of professionalism.

Recently needed to replace siding on my house, the only guy I could get to answer the phone and give me an estimate quoted $45k. Said he could have it finished in 5 days. I ended up doing it myself with help from a couple friends for <$18k. That equates to roughly $9k per day for labor based the contractors estimate, WTF?

I hear ya. I also got a quote for a carpet install in a ~1000 sq foot finished basement. $19,000 total installation and material for carpet that was about $3.50 a sq foot... I decided to install vinyl planks myself for a fraction of that cost. When did everything get so damn expensive

 

[WeiserBucks]

I hear ya. I also got a quote for a carpet install in a ~1000 sq foot finished basement. $19,000 total installation and material for carpet that was about $3.50 a sq foot... I decided to install vinyl planks myself for a fraction of that cost. When did everything get so damn expensive

Material costs unavoidable, contractors have simply been overcharging because most customers are willing to pay because they don't know any better and can't DIY.

 

[basket8]

Material costs unavoidable, contractors have simply been overcharging because most customers are willing to pay because they don't know any better and can't DIY.

It also blows my mind that when you call a plumber, electrician, flooring installer, etc. they act like they are annoyed that you are calling and wanting to hire them for a job. I get your busy but since when did too much work become such a burden for you. seems like a good problem to have. one electrician I called simply had a voicemail that said "we are too busy to take on any work at the moment we recommend calling someone else" straight to the point and honest, better than being a dick on the phone.

 

[87TT]

I used to be a union plumber. They kicked me out. Found out my parents were married.

 

[displacedtexan]

I guess what ive learned from all this is that I should have been a plumber

Yeah, we're not pocketing our hourly rate.

Or the materials markup.

 

[displacedtexan]

Can't you always just not work 50-60 hours tho? Like work 30, make bank, go fishing a lot?

That hourly rate also has to pay for a truck, insurance, THOUSANDS of dollars in tools, consumables, insurance, bookkeeping, and non-billable hours doing paperwork, planning, etc.

I average 35ish hours a week, and do lots of cool stuff.

But I'm not pocketing money like lots of people think.

 

[displacedtexan]

It also blows my mind that when you call a plumber, electrician, flooring installer, etc. they act like they are annoyed that you are calling and wanting to hire them for a job. I get your busy but since when did too much work become such a burden for you. seems like a good problem to have. one electrician I called simply had a voicemail that said "we are too busy to take on any work at the moment we recommend calling someone else" straight to the point and honest, better than being a dick on the phone.

Too much work is a burden because I'm not interested in taking time away from my wife, friends and hobbies to help out a stranger.

And most people get unhappy and complaining when they hear it'll be a few weeks before I come look at their project and 5-6 months before I can start it.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Im not sure if im just naive to the plumbing industry or if im getting screwed by a plumber I just hired. I hired a plumber to hook up 3 new vanities in a house im remodeling. I probably could have done this myself but time is running out and there were some unusual things I wanted a professional to handle ( replaced a single sink vanity with double sink, and a couple other things).

Anyway, the total bill ended up being $1800. $1000 in labor, and nearly $800 in materials. I went in the house to check the work and 3 lights were left on, piss was left in the toilet along with a dip. mud and dirt all over my brand new floors... All that aside my invoice only read "materials" with none of the parts listed out. I asked the plumber for an itemized list of parts or receipts and he replied they dont do that and that parts are marked up.

Am I out of line for asking for at least an itemized list or receipts or is that just how the plumbing business operates? Overall I was not expecting what I thought would be a relatively simple job to cost so much.

I’m not sure how long it’s been since pricing canaries, sinks, etc…. But, I’m not sure you could buy three cheap combos here and come in for that. The material sounds cheap.

The labor is something no one but yourself can make a statement on with any certainty.

Did he have to shim the vanity’s due to the floor? Did he have to shoot shoe molding around them due to having to shim them. Are the walls plumb and straight? All these are just examples of what takes an hour long project and turns it into three. Times three, his labor isn’t out of line.

No one truly knows but you. But, if he put a two bowl vanity in place of a single bowl, that is going to require sone fitting and trim work.

It sounds to me like he had the vanity’s already in his personal stock and gave them to you at a good deal. And, it sounds to me like he had to do some fitting and shimming. Did he? No one knows but you.


As far as the mess, I’d discuss it with him before I paid. Your time is just like his. Valuable. If you had to clean up after the slobs then I’d tell him as much and ask him what he thought was fair. I do t like homeowners trying to beat me out of anything we’ve agreed to. But, i don’t leave a trace behind except the work I’ve done. And, I certainly take off my boots to keep from tracking up their home. That’s terrible business.


My guess is he had employees do it. And, like 99.9% of employees, they don’t give a rip. If not and it was him that did it, I’d never use him again.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Yeah, we're not pocketing our hourly rate.

Or the materials markup.

Who is pocketing the material markup?

 

[ianpadron]

i’m probably gonna generate some heat and draw some flack for the following comment, which is, of course meant to be humorous and tongue-in-cheek.
I respect everyone who works for a living. That being said.

Evolutionary ladder of the trades:

electrician (of course I would believe this… I am an electrician)
good plumber
finish carpenter / Cabinet maker
tile setter
framer
flooring installer

Often must bail the crew out of jail to do a job:
sheet rockers
roofers
Painters

bad plumber: Destroys all the work of the other trades just to put his pipes in. Leaves a mess everywhere leaves empty sardine cans under the sink. Has terrible farts. Charges too much on top of it all

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this list

Drywallers and painters....always goin' through something man. The jail part...so true!

You don't know what a chainsmoker is until you watch a drywaller operate for a day straight. Straight up impressive.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

About 5 years ago my daughter was doing laundry and water started coming up between the foundation wall and the floor in the basement. It's only gray water from the laundry room and kitchen on that far end of a sprawling rancher. I called around and they were all about the same.......$1250 and that covered up to three feet of jackhammering and digging it out.

Well, I had no idea what was even wrong down there so hired a guy. He came and spent 2 hours total......jackhammering a two foot section, digging it out and replacing 18" of 2" line, and a 90 degree elbow. Filled it in, and threw some new concrete on top.......and left that rough.

$1250 for two hours work, 18" of 2" PVC, two PVC to cast iron couplings, a 90 degree elbow, and a bag of Quickcrete. SMH

So last year when I discovered more problems further down the drain lines, I figured the rest of all that cast iron pipe needed replacing too. So I bought a concrete saw, borrowed a jackhammer, and my daughter and I went to work. She sprayed the hose on the saw blade and dust while I cut. That was the worst part of this job. Everything else was pretty easy. Hired a buddy to dig out the sewer pipe under 6.5 feet of dirt with his track-hoe. Finished it all in three main sections sporadically over a few months and then did the concrete. Finished all that last Nov, and saved a ridiculous amount of money doing it ourselves. I also hired one of the drain clearing companies to come in and run their camera so we could mark all the lines and hub points before cutting.

All in cost me a little over $1500 including the concrete saw and excavation outside for replacing over 90 feet of pipe and connections. That's just over the plumber's 2 hour job total. Ridiculous.

Your time isn’t worth pay? You got all that digging done for that cheap? You got a company with a camera to come do that for that cheap?


I’m not for one second calling you a liar. But, you aren’t comparing apples to apples.

 

[basket8]

Too much work is a burden because I'm not interested in taking time away from my wife, friends and hobbies to help out a stranger.

And most people get unhappy and complaining when they hear it'll be a few weeks before I come look at their project and 5-6 months before I can start it.

Having too many people lined up willing to pay $125 an hour and a mark up on materials is not like friends bugging you to come volunteer your time and help out. the more you work the more you make. high demand comes with its benefits if youre willing to strike while the iron is hot.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Who is pocketing the material markup?

The federal, state, and local government is pocketing most of it.

 

[roymunson]

About 5 years ago my daughter was doing laundry and water started coming up between the foundation wall and the floor in the basement. It's only gray water from the laundry room and kitchen on that far end of a sprawling rancher. I called around and they were all about the same.......$1250 and that covered up to three feet of jackhammering and digging it out.

Well, I had no idea what was even wrong down there so hired a guy. He came and spent 2 hours total......jackhammering a two foot section, digging it out and replacing 18" of 2" line, and a 90 degree elbow. Filled it in, and threw some new concrete on top.......and left that rough.

$1250 for two hours work, 18" of 2" PVC, two PVC to cast iron couplings, a 90 degree elbow, and a bag of Quickcrete. SMH

So last year when I discovered more problems further down the drain lines, I figured the rest of all that cast iron pipe needed replacing too. So I bought a concrete saw, borrowed a jackhammer, and my daughter and I went to work. She sprayed the hose on the saw blade and dust while I cut. That was the worst part of this job. Everything else was pretty easy. Hired a buddy to dig out the sewer pipe under 6.5 feet of dirt with his track-hoe. Finished it all in three main sections sporadically over a few months and then did the concrete. Finished all that last Nov, and saved a ridiculous amount of money doing it ourselves. I also hired one of the drain clearing companies to come in and run their camera so we could mark all the lines and hub points before cutting.

All in cost me a little over $1500 including the concrete saw and excavation outside for replacing over 90 feet of pipe and connections. That's just over the plumber's 2 hour job total. Ridiculous.

You have a point, and you had the means and time to fix it yourself. That's not the case for everyone. Don't forget the liability that the plumber took in taking the job. If the pipe settles or doesn't work, he'll have to stand good for it.

Not everyone has a buddy with a mini hoe, and even if they do, not everyone wants to risk hitting an unmarked gas line and the BS that comes with it. Not to mention the 6.5' of dirt that could collapse on your head while you're down there.

i'm being a little over the top, but making the point that a lot of people have no idea what goes into keeping the lights turned on at work.

Good for you for saving the money. But the family of 6 where dad's working 60 hours a week to provide, they he doesn't have the time or ability to do it. $1250 is cheap if he can stay at work and pay it off that way...

More than 1 way to approach it.

 

[WeiserBucks]

The federal, state, and local government is pocketing most of it.

I'm not self employed or very tax savvy, care to explain?