Is this Kryptek Sheep hunt film satire?

[robby denning]

Hello Boys...

This is Butch Whiting, CEO Kryptek Outdoor Group

Quite a discussion we have going on here, so I felt it appropriate to jump in and give a few comments that I am able to speak to in this thread!

First...There was a lot of debate about editing out how this hunt actually went down. After much discussion, the decision to keep it as authentic as possible and not edit everything out became the way ahead....It was a Shit show for sure!! But for anyone that has hunted long enough, we have all had those crazy moments where things don't go as planned. Doug is actually a very good shot...but something was off with his gun and after the first shot, Things just fell apart from there.

If you haven't experienced something like this for yourselves, I would caution you to criticize to harshly, because its bound to happen as some point...Just hope you don't have a gallery of people and camera's everywhere when it does like Doug did...Yikes!!

Secondly...The Film was kept Authentic as possible because it was going to be the center of Gravity for the Idaho Wild Sheep Banquet in the Spring of 2020...There was a plan to wrap a 15 minute speech into the story, and explain everything about the hunt. The film was done with that, and soley that in mind....Both Idaho and National banquets went virtual, and the in person speeches and discussion went to the wayside, and the film went to the virtual platforms....Time was limited in the virtual intro's, and it just didn't pack the same punch that was intended...With all the "Explanation" of the highs and lows of the hunt.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=674391520074695

The real focus was to be on the Ram, and what it represented for all of the hard work Idaho Wild Sheep Foundation, Idaho Fish and Game Biologist has done to improve the numbers and quality of the Sheep Populations in Idaho!

Happy to speak with any of you that would like discuss...Come by our Booth at the National Wild Sheep Foundation in Reno over the next few days...Booth #863

Hope to see you there!

Thanks for coming on Butch and explaining your side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wind gypsy]

"The Duke" was an incredible ram and it would make a lot of sense to celebrate him as a success at a WSF banquet.

I'm trying to picture the build up of this marvelous conservation success story, state record ram harvest and then dropping that video on folks.. The guy with the $175k tag is allocated "the duke" as his ram over the commoner who drew the tag. The $175k tag holder cares so much for conservation and sheep that his ram gets a warning shot while walking at a steady clip 450 yards away, and it progresses downhill from there. What a buzz kill.

 

[CorbLand]

I will say this. If we filmed every elk hunt for the average person, it probably wouldnt look much different for about 15 to 20 percent of them.

It aint always pretty, is the same thing I tell everyone that I take hunting for the first time. The thing that I hate about stuff like this is the guy will be hailed as the great white hunter for killing a monster ram and just completely shit showed himself through it. I also know a couple people that shit showed themselves into successful businesses and I passed a couple classes in college that way.

Overall, I think there is a better representation that can be used at WSF banquet but average rams only bring average bids.

 

[RyanT26]

So now it’s a shit show, I thought it was a gun fight, which one is it?

 

[idelkslayer]

Why not do both?

1/77 doesn't seem all that egregious. I just like to point out that the argument that these tags are necessary is a fallacy. A fallacy that is often used as justification for increasing the number of auction tags at a detriment to the general pool of tags.

In 2015, Doug Sayer tried to use the argument that Idaho needed to allocate more auction tags because it was the best way to generate funding for wildlife in Idaho. Him and his supporters in the legislature were even able to pass a law authorizing IDFG to issue additional auction tags. His ideas were soundly rejected by sportsmen in Idaho and in response the Commission has not issued any more auction tags despite having the authority to do so. Seeing that Idaho sportsmen were against his ideas, and that the IDFG commission sided with sportsmen, Mr. Sayer, then took the issue to his buddy the Governor and persuaded him to change the composition of the Commission with persons more amenable to his ideas for auction tags, preference points and increased landowner tag quotas. I think this is relevant because it shows that certain people with money and access to power view themselves above the rest and use that influence to reduce general opportunity.

The fact is that we do not need auction tags. I don't really mind that we have 1 Bighorn tag allocated for auction, but it is the attitude that we should all be grateful to them as the saviors of wild sheep that bothers me. Hell, Mr. Sayer might even sincerely care about the future of wild sheep, but that doesn't change the fact that the revenue from the auction tag could easily be replaced. So again I say it's probably fine to have the auction tag, but we don't need it.

 

[Customweld]

1/77 doesn't seem all that egregious. I just like to point out that the argument that these tags are necessary is a fallacy. A fallacy that is often used as justification for increasing the number of auction tags at a detriment to the general pool of tags.

In 2015, Doug Sayer tried to use the argument that Idaho needed to allocate more auction tags because it was the best way to generate funding for wildlife in Idaho. Him and his supporters in the legislature were even able to pass a law authorizing IDFG to issue additional auction tags. His ideas were soundly rejected by sportsmen in Idaho and in response the Commission has not issued any more auction tags despite having the authority to do so. Seeing that Idaho sportsmen were against his ideas, and that the IDFG commission sided with sportsmen, Mr. Sayer, then took the issue to his buddy the Governor and persuaded him to change the composition of the Commission with persons more amenable to his ideas for auction tags, preference points and increased landowner tag quotas. I think this is relevant because it shows that certain people with money and access to power view themselves above the rest and use that influence to reduce general opportunity.

The fact is that we do not need auction tags. I don't really mind that we have 1 Bighorn tag allocated for auction, but it is the attitude that we should all be grateful to them as the saviors of wild sheep that bothers me. Hell, Mr. Sayer might even sincerely care about the future of wild sheep, but that doesn't change the fact that the revenue from the auction tag could easily be replaced. So again I say it's probably fine to have the auction tag, but we don't need it.

Man, that was a real nail biter legislator session. Lots of push from a group in a state south of us. That was the year legislators held the license price increase hostage in exchange for more lap's and auction tags.

 

[Mtnboy]

1/77 doesn't seem all that egregious. I just like to point out that the argument that these tags are necessary is a fallacy. A fallacy that is often used as justification for increasing the number of auction tags at a detriment to the general pool of tags.

In 2015, Doug Sayer tried to use the argument that Idaho needed to allocate more auction tags because it was the best way to generate funding for wildlife in Idaho. Him and his supporters in the legislature were even able to pass a law authorizing IDFG to issue additional auction tags. His ideas were soundly rejected by sportsmen in Idaho and in response the Commission has not issued any more auction tags despite having the authority to do so. Seeing that Idaho sportsmen were against his ideas, and that the IDFG commission sided with sportsmen, Mr. Sayer, then took the issue to his buddy the Governor and persuaded him to change the composition of the Commission with persons more amenable to his ideas for auction tags, preference points and increased landowner tag quotas. I think this is relevant because it shows that certain people with money and access to power view themselves above the rest and use that influence to reduce general opportunity.

The fact is that we do not need auction tags. I don't really mind that we have 1 Bighorn tag allocated for auction, but it is the attitude that we should all be grateful to them as the saviors of wild sheep that bothers me. Hell, Mr. Sayer might even sincerely care about the future of wild sheep, but that doesn't change the fact that the revenue from the auction tag could easily be replaced. So again I say it's probably fine to have the auction tag, but we don't need it.

How would it be easily replaced?

And before you say "Add a few dollars to license and tag fees." Keep in mind that TONS of folks in Idaho were up in arms in 2017 when they raised the License fee a measly $5. A huge majority of resident hunters in Idaho could care less that the money they spend on licenses and tags goes toward conservation, they just want to hunt and fish as cheap as possible.

 

[wind gypsy]

How would it be easily replaced?

And before you say "Add a few dollars to license and tag fees." Keep in mind that TONS of folks in Idaho were up in arms in 2017 when they raised the License fee a measly $5. A huge majority of resident hunters in Idaho could care less that the money they spend on licenses and tags goes toward conservation, they just want to hunt and fish as cheap as possible.

a 5$ fee increase for every deer and elk tag sold annually in ID is 6.67 times more $ than the $175k Sayer paid for "the Duke"s tag.

So every year with the increased license fees covers roughly 7 years worth of what Sayer pays for an auction tag. That's just $5, the NR tag prices went up a hell of a lot more.

 

[RyanT26]

It looks like a Wyoming Super tag raffle raised about $1.46 million, so I think that could work

 

[Crghss]

View attachment 367016

People that post like this seem similar to the people in video. Whats the phase “Birds of a feather”.

 

[wind gypsy]

1/77 doesn't seem all that egregious. I just like to point out that the argument that these tags are necessary is a fallacy. A fallacy that is often used as justification for increasing the number of auction tags at a detriment to the general pool of tags.

In 2015, Doug Sayer tried to use the argument that Idaho needed to allocate more auction tags because it was the best way to generate funding for wildlife in Idaho. Him and his supporters in the legislature were even able to pass a law authorizing IDFG to issue additional auction tags. His ideas were soundly rejected by sportsmen in Idaho and in response the Commission has not issued any more auction tags despite having the authority to do so. Seeing that Idaho sportsmen were against his ideas, and that the IDFG commission sided with sportsmen, Mr. Sayer, then took the issue to his buddy the Governor and persuaded him to change the composition of the Commission with persons more amenable to his ideas for auction tags, preference points and increased landowner tag quotas. I think this is relevant because it shows that certain people with money and access to power view themselves above the rest and use that influence to reduce general opportunity.

The fact is that we do not need auction tags. I don't really mind that we have 1 Bighorn tag allocated for auction, but it is the attitude that we should all be grateful to them as the saviors of wild sheep that bothers me. Hell, Mr. Sayer might even sincerely care about the future of wild sheep, but that doesn't change the fact that the revenue from the auction tag could easily be replaced. So again I say it's probably fine to have the auction tag, but we don't need it.

Agree 100% with your sentiment. I posted links covering Sayer's 2015 efforts earlier in this thread, glad you guys could defeat the addition of more auction tags.

 

[Mtnboy]

a 5$ fee increase for every deer and elk tag sold annually in ID is 6.67 times more $ than the $175k Sayer paid for "the Duke"s tag.

So every year with the increased license fees covers roughly 7 years worth of what Sayer pays for an auction tag. That's just $5, the NR tag prices went up a hell of a lot more.

Well, you basically ignored my second paragraph, but you're not wrong. I just know that the "everyman" who purchases a tag in Idaho would throw a fit if prices went up. Personally, I wish Elk and Deer tags were $100 each, that'd still be a bargain.

Auction Tags (in Idaho at least) are not a problem, they bring in money that would otherwise not be brought in, especially money that is earmarked specifically for Sheep Conservation.

Most of the time it seems folks who have a problem with auction tags actually have a problem with jealousy, jealousy that they don't have the means to buy one themself.

*Edited to add that I personally spent A LOT of time fighting the increase in Auction tags when Sayer was pushing for it, one per species to raise a big chunk of money all at once is enough. No more are needed*

 

[Billy Goat]

Do residents get an auction tag at a discount?



I'm starting to like the idea of auctioning all tags if it levels the pricing.

 

[BuzzH]

Felt terrible for the guy holding the unit tag, gets his gun torn out of his hand and treated like an after thought.
That was freaking disgusting. If that’s what we are all about then some serious self introspection is in order.

1017 “good job dude. You got it done”

Sad part is Sayer won't/didn't even give the unit tag holder a second thought...it was a forgone conclusion who was "entitled" to that ram.

But, please keep in mind, we've all been told it was all about the ram...

Steaming pile from stem to stern, and just gets worse the more its defended.

 

[woods89]

a 5$ fee increase for every deer and elk tag sold annually in ID is 6.67 times more $ than the $175k Sayer paid for "the Duke"s tag.

So every year with the increased license fees covers roughly 7 years worth of what Sayer pays for an auction tag. That's just $5, the NR tag prices went up a hell of a lot more.

I think more than creating many new hunters we need to see the value in resident fee increases, as hunters. I pay $19 for a firearms any deer tag and $7 for doe tags here in MO. To me that's ridiculously cheap.
There's a lot of funding potential out there if we put some value on it.

 

[Crowmangler]

Most of the time it seems folks who have a problem with auction tags actually have a problem with jealousy, jealousy that they don't have the means to buy one themself.

Respectfully disagree... I don't consider it jealousy at all. Sheep are not Lambos that roll out the factory every day. There's an extremely limited resource (tag) that a guy would really like to draw & he realizes that he probably never will in his lifetime. He applies for 25+ years with no luck. Then along comes someone who can easily write a check for a dozen of these "lifetime" tags like we would for a steak dinner.
Speaking only for myself I'd happily pay a little more or all other tags & do away with the auction.
Or earmark a few as a raffle like the super tag so every person has the exact same chance. Maybe even throw a bone to lifetime license holders & give them 2 chances?

 

[Mtnboy]

Respectfully disagree... I don't consider it jealousy at all. Sheep are not Lambos that roll out the factory every day. There's an extremely limited resource (tag) that a guy would really like to draw & he realizes that he probably never will in his lifetime. He applies for 25+ years with no luck. Then along comes someone who can easily write a check for a dozen of these "lifetime" tags like we would for a steak dinner.
Speaking only for myself I'd happily pay a little more or all other tags & do away with the auction.
Or earmark a few as a raffle like the super tag so every person has the exact same chance. Maybe even throw a bone to lifetime license holders & give them 2 chances?

Idaho also has a raffle tag every year that you can buy unlimited tickets for. They even rotate the years so that Unit 11 is available for the Auction Tag one year and the Raffle Tag the next.

Buy as many tickets as your heart desires....some would argue the odds are better for a non-res in that drawing than the standard tag drawings.

 

[BuzzH]

Idaho also has a raffle tag every year that you can buy unlimited tickets for. They even rotate the years so that Unit 11 is available for the Auction Tag one year and the Raffle Tag the next.

Buy as many tickets as your heart desires....some would argue the odds are better for a non-res in that drawing than the standard tag drawings.

I have a great story about the non-res tag holder that drew the raffle tag for unit 11, one of my best friends...big money tried to buy that too. My buddy got to tell the fat wallet to pound sand, twice.

Even better he killed a B&C ram at about 100 yards with a remington 700 ADL in .270 and a 150 grain partition...with one shot.

You know, the way sheep hunting should be.

 

[idelkslayer]

How would it be easily replaced?

And before you say "Add a few dollars to license and tag fees." Keep in mind that TONS of folks in Idaho were up in arms in 2017 when they raised the License fee a measly $5. A huge majority of resident hunters in Idaho could care less that the money they spend on licenses and tags goes toward conservation, they just want to hunt and fish as cheap as possible.

I completely agree with you, the average sportsman throws a fit any time a fee increase is proposed. I still think it would be possible to earmark an increase in fees for wild sheep conservation. It would be my preferred method for increasing funding even if we keep the auction tag. Like I said before, do both. Other methods, that are not my first preference, would be to place a tax on domestic sheep producers, but that is less likely to happen than a $1 increase on hunting licenses.

I would be lying if I said that I wasn't a little jealous of auction tag buyers. However, I believe that hey have made their fortunes and there is nothing wrong with them spending their money on a legally obtainable tag. I'm repeating myself, but I believe that just because funding has been obtained that way in the past doesn't mean that there aren't other ways to generate the same level of revenue into the future. I just don't want that reasoning to be used as justification for adding more and more auction tags that take away opportunity from the general pool of tags.

 

[Traveler]

Hello Boys...

This is Butch Whiting, CEO Kryptek Outdoor Group

Quite a discussion we have going on here, so I felt it appropriate to jump in and give a few comments that I am able to speak to in this thread!

First...There was a lot of debate about editing out how this hunt actually went down. After much discussion, the decision to keep it as authentic as possible and not edit everything out became the way ahead....It was a Shit show for sure!! But for anyone that has hunted long enough, we have all had those crazy moments where things don't go as planned. Doug is actually a very good shot...but something was off with his gun and after the first shot, Things just fell apart from there.

If you haven't experienced something like this for yourselves, I would caution you to criticize to harshly, because its bound to happen as some point...Just hope you don't have a gallery of people and camera's everywhere when it does like Doug did...Yikes!!

Secondly...The Film was kept Authentic as possible because it was going to be the center of Gravity for the Idaho Wild Sheep Banquet in the Spring of 2020...There was a plan to wrap a 15 minute speech into the story, and explain everything about the hunt. The film was done with that, and soley that in mind....Both Idaho and National banquets went virtual, and the in person speeches and discussion went to the wayside, and the film went to the virtual platforms....Time was limited in the virtual intro's, and it just didn't pack the same punch that was intended...With all the "Explanation" of the highs and lows of the hunt.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=674391520074695

The real focus was to be on the Ram, and what it represented for all of the hard work Idaho Wild Sheep Foundation, Idaho Fish and Game Biologist has done to improve the numbers and quality of the Sheep Populations in Idaho!

Happy to speak with any of you that would like discuss...Come by our Booth at the National Wild Sheep Foundation in Reno over the next few days...Booth #863

Hope to see you there!

People have been there with some of it…scopes get bumped, excitement sets in, got it.

Flagging a group of hunters with a loaded gun, not having ammo of your own, taking another’s gun, referring to it as a gun fight….all fair game and a bad look cameras or not