Is this enough Pistol?

[theotherdubya]

Don't have any experience with this, and hope not to... that being said the Hunt Backcountry Podcast has an episode with Chris Forrest (an ex-SEAL) from Tactic MT who teaches a two day class called "Surviving the Griz" - they go into handgun (very high on the 10mm) vs pepper spray, but stress even more where you carry it on your body - interesting listen.

Grizzly Bear Survival and Defense Tactics

 

[Tld]

I have a 454 casull and a g20 10mm. Love them both, but i always carry the 10mm. With 200 hardcast(wide flat nose) they penetrate like crazy. Razor dobbs dumped 2 cape buffalo with that load and they passed thru both shoulders and stuck in the hide on the far side. He also has video of shooting a wildebeast at 100 yards and gets a complete pass thru. Not near as manly, but i have shot 3 whitetails with that load and the internal damage was amazing, with full pass thrus of course. When u do the research, you will find several grizz and moose have been killed with 10mm, even 9mm and 45 auto. Im not knocking the big wheel guns at all, but carry what you shoot best( with the right loads) because a bad shot even from a 375 doesnt have that much effect

 

[Beendare]

Yeah from what I've seen on the many hog charges....its going to be all about these Hardcast loads....and what you can shoot quickly and accurately.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

There is not a single handgun caliber out there that anyone reputable would claim is a reliable single shot bear stopper. Following this logic I tend to want more rounds on target. I also want those rounds designed for penetration.

Esse quam videri

 

[ramont]

...Following this logic I tend to want more rounds on target. I also want those rounds designed for penetration...

Your logic is flawed. The average person can only fire a couple of rounds per second and the fact that most bear charges give you about 3 seconds to do anything before the bear is on top of you means that you can realistically expect to get no more than 3 or 4 rounds off. Having 14 rounds just means that the authorities will have to destroy 10 or 11 rounds after they recover your body.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Your logic is flawed. The average person can only fire a couple of rounds per second and the fact that most bear charges give you about 3 seconds to do anything before the bear is on top of you means that you can realistically expect to get no more than 3 or 4 rounds off. Having 14 rounds just means that the authorities will have to destroy 10 or 11 rounds after they recover your body.

Just take a look at how many confirmed bear kills with different pistol calibers and you will see where you crossed from logic to opinion.
Having said that, give me three seconds and that is a minimum of 9 rounds sent down range including the draw. In other words I will have shot three more than the revolver could hold, but still have 6 (assuming your 15 rounds) just in case I have more time than average.
Of course that is not mentioning the fact that I am nowhere near as fast with a caliber that weighs easily twice as much and recoils at least twice as much.

Esse quam videri

 

[realunlucky]

Just take a look at how many confirmed bear kills with different pistol calibers and you will see where you crossed from logic to opinion.
Having said that, give me three seconds and that is a minimum of 9 rounds sent down range including the draw. In other words I will have shot three more than the revolver could hold, but still have 6 (assuming your 15 rounds) just in case I have more time than average.
Of course that is not mentioning the fact that I am nowhere near as fast with a caliber that weighs easily twice as much and recoils at least twice as much.

Esse quam videri

I'll take your money here every time. Your never getting 9 hits on target in 3 seconds. NEVER

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[EastMT]

There are literally 2000 topics on 10mm for bear protection. It runs about 50/50. Lets all just agree to disagree. I carry a 10mm. I can draw and shoot faster than I can get a wheel gun out. One shot off beats zero


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[Trial153]

Anyone make hard cast in 22 LR? Asking for a friend.....

 

[Backpack Hunter]

I'll take your money here every time. Your never getting 9 hits on target in 3 seconds. NEVER

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Lol based on your perceived abilities I guess not. There are literally thousands that do better than that every week. Heck, I don't even place in most competitions cause I'm too slow.
Of course I'm no Jerry nor am I running a heavily comped pistol, but I think he was somewhere around 27 rounds in just a little over 3 seconds. Guess that's impossible too though.

Esse quam videri

 

[realunlucky]

Can't wait to see your video

Also I do concede there are multiple variables ie starting position and target size.

 

[colonel00]

I love this thread



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[BRobertson]

There is not a single handgun caliber out there that anyone reputable would claim is a reliable single shot bear stopper. Following this logic I tend to want more rounds on target. I also want those rounds designed for penetration.

Esse quam videri

I usually stay out of these type of discussions. But I have to respond to this.!!
There is a lot of ignorance reference handgun effectiveness on game!! If you put a relatively large caliber bullet through vitals( heart, lungs,
spine, brain, etc,) it does not matter what it was launched from, rifle or handgun, it will be effective!

It is obviously more difficult to place the bullet properly with a handgun.


There are very reasonable sized and packable handguns available that are viable bear protection.
Folks should probably refrain from making blanket statements about subjects that they have no personal knowledge of.

Of course, then there would not be as much need for the internet

 

[Backpack Hunter]

I usually stay out of these type of discussions. But I have to respond to this.!!
There is a lot of ignorance reference handgun effectiveness on game!! If you put a relatively large caliber bullet through vitals( heart, lungs,
spine, brain, etc,) it does not matter what it was launched from, rifle or handgun, it will be effective!

It is obviously more difficult to place the bullet properly with a handgun.


There are very reasonable sized and packable handguns available that are viable bear protection.
Folks should probably refrain from making blanket statements about subjects that they have no
personal knowledge of.

Of course, then there would not be as much need for the internet

As much as I appreciate the internet outrage if you had read my post you would have realized I never said a pistol could not be effective. Heck, I'm the one advocating a smaller caliber than most. I did say there is not a single handgun caliber out there that anyone reputable would claim is a reliable single shot bear stopper.
As to the comment about a relatively large caliber bullet we will have to disagree until we can find out what relatvely large means. A 22 thru the vitals will kill very effectively.
As to the comment about personal knowledge on a subject......well suffice to say you have no clue as to my knowledge on the subject. How could you? You never asked.

 

[BRobertson]

Yep, you are correct, I should have asked what you mean by reputable?? Someone that is famous on the internet


Also, if you had knowledge on the subject of handgun effectiveness, even minimal knowledge, you would not make such a statement.
By the way, I am not at all outraged.

Bob

- - - Updated - - -

Backpack hunter, it just occurred to me that you and I are actually saying the same thing when it comes down to the final point and take away!!

I would simply make your statement a little different : No handgun caliber is a reliable bear stopper if the shooter is not competent.

 

[bluetick78]

I really love this discussion. Even though it is getting heated, it is bringing out some good points. I think a good take away is that an individual that is very proficient with a small caliber is probably better off than an unpracticed individual with ANY caliber. My wife shoots competitively with a 9mm. It's what would be called a "race" gun. When we're in bear country, that's what she's carrying. I have no doubt that she could put 15 rounds pretty much on target in 3 or 4 seconds; I've seen her do it on uncooperative black bears and mtn lion alike. Reload speed is important too. If the entirety of the first magazine isn't enough, then there will be more ready in less than 1 second. Pick a gun you like, train, train, and train some more. I'm at the other end of the spectrum from her. I usually carry a S&W 629 in bear country along with spray. If it's a known area for problem Grizzlies, then my Henry 45-70 will come along as well. I have been making eyes at a G20 lately though.....but Springfield bringing out their XDM 10 has muddied things up. Pick a gun and get as much practice with it as you can. Shoot laying on your side, on your back, simulate tripping over brush and still getting rounds on target, have someone scream profanities in your ear while trying to shoot, kick your gun through the dust and then dump a cylinder or magazine to ensure function. But please, do them safely and try to get better and smarter every time.

 

[Tld]

Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by Caliber | Sporting Classics Daily

This might be a good read for everyone, it lists facts instead of opinions. I think its interesting from all prospectives.

(I hope the link works)

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by Caliber | Sporting Classics Daily

This might be a good read for everyone, it lists facts instead of opinions. I think its interesting from all prospectives.

(I hope the link works)

That's the link I used in the other thread. Good info.

Esse quam videri

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Yep, you are correct, I should have asked what you mean by reputable?? Someone that is famous on the internet


Also, if you had knowledge on the subject of handgun effectiveness, even minimal knowledge, you would not make such a statement.
By the way, I am not at all outraged.

Bob

- - - Updated - - -

Backpack hunter, it just occurred to me that you and I are actually saying the same thing when it comes down to the final point and take away!!

I would simply make your statement a little different : No handgun caliber is a reliable bear stopper if the shooter is not competent.

Yup, pretty sure we are agreeing more than not.

Esse quam videri

 

[Trial153]

These threads amount to mental masturbation .