Is there sufficient demand for a custom reticle provider?

[Chris in TN]

Once upon a time there was Premiere(?) and even until a year or two ago there was a small company (target shooter optics?) that did custom reticles for a small number of scope brands.

They're both gone now. I contacted the latter a few years ago (I still have the email from 2020) and asked them about some custom reticles but they didn't do hashmarks or etched reticles. Just wires and dots.

I realize that every scope you worked on would require disassembly, reassembly, nitrogen (or whatever) purging, and scopes with etched reticles would likely require either etching over the existing reticle (the cynical part of me would find this incredibly satisfying) or more likely, installing a new lens element. You'd have to learn how to make nice with a bunch of scope makers to offer sufficient options for a customer base that would keep you afloat. You'd likely kill a lot of warranties and you'd have to be prepared to be sued for that (I guess?).

Reading the posts here makes me think there's a market for this. I guess the question is, would it be worth the investment in stuff you'd need, to be able to work on a wider swath of different scopes, and possibly even be replacing glass? Is it possible that you might pick up enough business to pay the bills doing repair work for existing makers and doing basic disassembly/clean/reassemble for older scopes? I know there's one company that does that but I don't think they really do a lot of new glass, much less reticles.

I'm probably not the person for this. I'm just thinking out loud as to whether it's even a viable business idea.

Thoughts?

 

[MuleyFever]

The fact that someone was doing it and now they are gone may be an indicator. They could be gone for many reasons but lack of demand could also be the reason. Its probably more of a viable hobby than a business. Rokslide isnt real life for 99% of hunters. I have never even met another hunter that showed any interest or concern over reticle offerings.

 

[Formidilosus]

Once upon a time there was Premiere(?) and even until a year or two ago there was a small company (target shooter optics?) that did custom reticles for a small number of scope brands.

They're both gone now. I contacted the latter a few years ago (I still have the email from 2020) and asked them about some custom reticles but they didn't do hashmarks or etched reticles. Just wires and dots.

I realize that every scope you worked on would require disassembly, reassembly, nitrogen (or whatever) purging, and scopes with etched reticles would likely require either etching over the existing reticle (the cynical part of me would find this incredibly satisfying) or more likely, installing a new lens element. You'd have to learn how to make nice with a bunch of scope makers to offer sufficient options for a customer base that would keep you afloat. You'd likely kill a lot of warranties and you'd have to be prepared to be sued for that (I guess?).

Reading the posts here makes me think there's a market for this. I guess the question is, would it be worth the investment in stuff you'd need, to be able to work on a wider swath of different scopes, and possibly even be replacing glass? Is it possible that you might pick up enough business to pay the bills doing repair work for existing makers and doing basic disassembly/clean/reassemble for older scopes? I know there's one company that does that but I don't think they really do a lot of new glass, much less reticles.

I'm probably not the person for this. I'm just thinking out loud as to whether it's even a viable business idea.

Thoughts?

I would like it. But it isn’t a viable business unless you are already doing warranty work for specific scopes.

 

[jzeblaz]

Hollandguns.com used to get his reticle (ART) put in Leupold, S&M and I think NF scopes for awhile. I don't see any mention of it on his site any longer.

 

[Axlrod]

I dont think I would let a 3rd party disassemble my scope anyway. But if I could buy the reticle and have NF install it i would trust it.
No way that's happening either. I called NF about changing a reticle, and they will only put in reticles that are offered in that scope model. They wont/can't put in other NF reticles.

 

[Rich M]

Think about the dismantling of various brand scopes and reassembling them. Can you warranty or guaranty them?

A great concept, just tough in delivery.

 

[Dobermann]

Think about the dismantling of various brand scopes and reassembling them. Can you warranty or guaranty them?

A great concept, just tough in delivery.

Yes, but while it's not directly relevant to the OP's question, it's worth bearing in mind that a lot of third party providers do exactly this for scope companies - especially in countries outside of their headquarters.

I had a new Bushnell with some flecks on the inside of the ocular - it wasn't sent back to the US (or Japan), but handled locally. For all I know, it might have been by a skilled one-person operator working from home (with a the right set-up, of course).

 

[Speaks]

I would think cost to do this profitably would not be marketable.

 

[Chris in TN]

Thanks guys.

So much advancement has happened in the gun world in my lifetime. It's a shame we pretty much can't get decent reticle choices, in decent scopes.

 

[Rich M]

Thanks guys.

So much advancement has happened in the gun world in my lifetime. It's a shame we pretty much can't get decent reticle choices, in decent scopes.

It all depends on what you see as a decent reticle.

I like a regular reticle and also a very simple BDC. If there are more than say 6 short lines, I have no interest. My old man like a single 1-inch dot, no lines.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

There was a market in the past. About 75 years ago there was a company that came up with what was called the Lee Dot. T.K. Lee made a dot that was custom sized to what you wanted and installed it with Black Widow Spider webs. The size was moa . I had a Weaver K-4 with a 1 moa Lee Dot. I had another Weaver and a Redfield with their dots . I still have the K-4. T.K.Lee passed away and his sons tried to continue the business. They are long gone now.
I liked a dot reticle and no one made one that you could buy, so their was in demand then. Their price was was about $50.00 , which was a little pricy back then. My Dad had a Winchester Model 54 in .22 Hornet with a Weaver K-6 on it with a dot and I really could shoot it. I have 6 Leupold VXIII and they all have the target dot that they make.

 

[Chris in TN]

It all depends on what you see as a decent reticle.

I like a regular reticle and also a very simple BDC. If there are more than say 6 short lines, I have no interest. My old man like a single 1-inch dot, no lines.

I am defining 'decent' as a reticle capable of doing what the rest of the scope is capable of doing. I'm not interested in what other people prefer - we all have such preferences - I am interested in stuff that works for what I actually want to use it for.

Long range? Yep. A reliable scope with good turrets and a few windage hashes can do that.
Low light at low power? Most SFP scopes do it well enough. Most FFP scopes could, if they'd tweak the reticles by taking out the useless and stupid 20-30moa of windage and replace it with wider, tapered sides with just a few moa of windage hashes for use at higher power precision shooting but leaving the wide sides thick enough to use as an aiming bracket of sorts in lower light at the very common 25 to ~150 yard target range.

I've pointed out elsewhere that there isn't one single perfect ideal reticle; there are a range of workable approaches that would work. Gunwerks has a workable reticle - though it's absurd to charge more for it, IMO - and Burris and others (Minox) have reticles that at least begin to address the issue. The Maven RS1.2moa-2 gets awfully close with a few extra pieces of flair they could do without. More than one person on this forum has drawn up suggestions that get close.

The point is, it can be done - you can build a reticle that ceases to be the weak link in a riflescope. That's the bar. Make a scope where the reticle is as useful as the rest of the scope.

ETA: I don't intend to be confrontational in saying that. I just think it might be important to define terms or parameters here, and having a reticle that works across the same scenarios that the rest of the scope works, without being the weak link or requiring extra gadgetry, is a pretty good starting point.

 

[HuntHarder]

I do not think this company would survive unless the cost was sub $100. The reticle is "unusable" is severely blown out of proportion on this forum. Sure there are deficiencies in reticles, but they aren't causing tons of misses or inability to make a shot. In over 25 years of rifle hunting, that i can remember, I have never not been able to make a shot, based on reticle.

A company could offer 20 reticles, and still not everyone would be happy.

 

[rayporter]

premier done several for me before they went all military and T K lee done a couple before health troubles. the last 2 Cheryl at Ackerman made up. she still does some but is very picky.
one of the reasons to be picky has to do with how they are glued. all of these makers had to have a wire to put the dots on.

 

[Chris in TN]

There was a market in the past. About 75 years ago

I've seen the Lee dots. I never used one. I have one scope with a center aiming dot, a Meopta Optika 5 2-10x. It's OK in bright light but the rest of the reticle is useless, so much so that I don't even hunt squirrels with the .22 it's on even though it is demonstrably more accurate than my actual squirrel gun. Even the little dot disappears in low light. I've tried to use it and have made headshots look easy with it, but I've also lost shots with it. It's great in decent light, but useless after sundown.

But since we're talking about older stuff.....45-50 years ago or more, Bushnell had the 'command post' reticle. Thin crosshairs that were popular back then, and at low light you could dial a switch on the scope (mechanical, not electric) and a thick heavy central post would pop up. I had one of them, I got it from my grandpa, it was a 1.5-4.5x. It worked well enough for the time. A buddy of mine ended up with it and I'm sure it has long been lost to time.

But think of that - it was a decently elegant and decently robust solution to what was seen as a problem even then, with low light or fast shots. The posts generally didn't flip up to perfect center but they got close enough, and better modern manufacturing could probably do the same or better.

I'm betting you remember them.

 

[Chris in TN]

I do not think this company would survive unless the cost was sub $100. The reticle is "unusable" is severely blown out of proportion on this forum. Sure there are deficiencies in reticles, but they aren't causing tons of misses or inability to make a shot. In over 25 years of rifle hunting, that i can remember, I have never not been able to make a shot, based on reticle.

A company could offer 20 reticles, and still not everyone would be happy.

Offering 20 reticles would be a mistake unless they were incredibly easy to interchange for the manufacturer.

I'd start with perhaps two, but I'd be certain both were usable, first. They'd both have to solve a commonly perceived problem. The solution wouldn't have to be perfect in everyone's opinion, just objectively superior to what exists now. Like a lot of things they could easily evolve as time passed and feedback was given.

 

[Chris in TN]

premier done several for me before they went all military and T K lee done a couple before health troubles. the last 2 Cheryl at Ackerman made up. she still does some but is very picky.

That was who I emailed at target shooter optics. Good to hear she still does work, though their setup really didn't address the exact issue I am concerned with.

 

[Mtndawger]

I've seen the Lee dots. I never used one. I have one scope with a center aiming dot, a Meopta Optika 5 2-10x. It's OK in bright light but the rest of the reticle is useless, so much so that I don't even hunt squirrels with the .22 it's on even though it is demonstrably more accurate than my actual squirrel gun. Even the little dot disappears in low light. I've tried to use it and have made headshots look easy with it, but I've also lost shots with it. It's great in decent light, but useless after sundown.

But since we're talking about older stuff.....45-50 years ago or more, Bushnell had the 'command post' reticle. Thin crosshairs that were popular back then, and at low light you could dial a switch on the scope (mechanical, not electric) and a thick heavy central post would pop up. I had one of them, I got it from my grandpa, it was a 1.5-4.5x. It worked well enough for the time. A buddy of mine ended up with it and I'm sure it has long been lost to time.

But think of that - it was a decently elegant and decently robust solution to what was seen as a problem even then, with low light or fast shots. The posts generally didn't flip up to perfect center but they got close enough, and better modern manufacturing could probably do the same or better.

I'm betting you remember them.

My dad got me one of those for my first deer rifle. I still have it albeit sitting in a bin of stuff waiting for something to do with it.

 

[HuntHarder]

Offering 20 reticles would be a mistake unless they were incredibly easy to interchange for the manufacturer.

I'd start with perhaps two, but I'd be certain both were usable, first. They'd both have to solve a commonly perceived problem. The solution wouldn't have to be perfect in everyone's opinion, just objectively superior to what exists now. Like a lot of things they could easily evolve as time passed and feedback was given.

Yeah, cost would be the deciding factor for most. You have to factor tho, just in the Nx6 thread there are like 10 different wants a needs. Thats a very small subset of shooters who are saying that too.

 

[rayporter]

there are a lot of choices out there and in the big scheme of things "custom" is not exactly popular, believe it or not. doing older scopes is really rare.

the majority will just find something close and call it good enough, and buy it.