Is There Ever a Time to Hunt with Magnum Calibers?

[Axlrod]

@Formidilosus can only lock his threads and make them stickys(Scope Evaluations). He has no other moderator privileges. I changed his title for you.

Can you also put a button at the top of the area where we post, that says "drinking while posting"? It would show up as an icon only on those posts, where I and possibly others had a couple beers that day.

 

[MuleyBuck]

My anecdotal experience, and I have a smaller sample size only hunting my own state, but I’ve killed around 75 deer, elk, and antelope. 40%-ish have been with a .300 win mag, and another 40% with a 30-06. Mostly shooting accu-tips, Accubonds, and core-lokts. 100% have been recovered, 95% required 1 shot. I’ve never wounded and lost a big game animal with a rifle. Rifle hunting is easy that way.

The other 20% are small caliber and bow kills. Haven’t been as impressed with the smaller calibers, but only started researching bullets the last couple years, so before I was only shooting whatever I had, which might not have been the right tool for the job. Keeping an open mind and learning a lot on this forum.

Wish I had more than those 75 kills but you can only get so many licenses each year and a lot of years I don’t fill doe tags if I’ve already killed 2 bucks (deer/antelope) and a bull elk.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

I hunt with Magnums every year…and fill my freezers every year. Last season I had two kills with my 7 Mag and 2 kills with my .308. So I can use either. Knowing where and how to hunt and how to shoot are more important than the cartridge used.

 

[JGRaider]

Yep, if my experience in the field that I've been clear about isn't enough for you to believe we should stand on similar turf, you have an ego and this forum
is your heaven. You can't agree to disagree, you've always got to get the last word in. Here's hoping your disciples show up otherwise pile it on boys. You cannot claim to be not Arrogant with what you said about drinking. An apology might even be in order.. That kind of BS doesn't fill the bill. If you're a moderator so you can have certain privileges, then you don't deserve to be called a moderator. You deserve to be a contributor and nothing more. At least you deserve to be something around here apparently, the rest of us just take low blows.

If you want to see an exercise in a huge ego, you ought to read the elk hunt he posted over on 24HCF before he bailed over there. He's been using the same old schtick for years when you question him, and his "thousands, plural" of animals he's personally killed....well......

He's a master at "leading/educating" people, that's for sure.

 

[hereinaz]

Gosh I’m confused - you used to say a 300 mag isn’t needed because it causes too much damage, now you’re saying elk are immune to it. Just trying to make sense out of it is hard enough without a moving target.

The point should be obvious, animals are tough and sometimes the will to live means some animals die slower. Sometimes it takes 1 bullet sometimes it takes more—- regardless of bullet size. Objectively, the number of shots needed tells you very little about the bullet.

When it’s the 300 for 4 shots it’s “see how tough they are! Glad I used a big bullet.”

When it’s the .223 for 4 shots it’s “see how tough they are. You need a big bullet to kill elk.”

 

[Laelkhunter]

I have a BIG magnum, but I only use it when my 6.5 CM is in the shop. Still isn't the same though.

 

[Bluumoon]

I finally found a reason to hunt with a magnum, Rokstoks haven't made it back from getting LOP increased and I have 7PRC that has never been on a hunt. Dilemma is, the other option is a 22CM that has never been on a hunt. Zero concerns about either option for Aoudad. Will run some drills and stretch them both out this weekend to pick a winner. 7PRC does give cause a slight nut buzz when impacting steel.

 

[deltadukman]

My observations between 300wm and 6.5prc. I have shot 300wm for years. I wanted to get a short & light 6.5 to run suppressed. Bought a Havak Element in 6.5 prc and it likes the 140 Berger Elites. I have shot 5 does this year from 100-458 yards. None went more than 30 yards. All aimed behind the shoulder. One did take a shoulder shot and had a little meat loss, but it's a whitetail deer shoulder, not much meat anyway. We shoot a lot of them so a little meat loss doesnt bother me. Conversely, last year, 300wm with 185 Bergers shot a doe perfect @ 100 yards. Blood all over the place like you were pouring it out of a bucket. Deer ran 150 yards. Point being, it doesn't matter the caliber, or the placement, shit happens sometimes. Have since bought a regular 6.5 to play with as well.

 

[TaperPin]

The point should be obvious, animals are tough and sometimes the will to live means some animals die slower. Sometimes it takes 1 bullet sometimes it takes more—- regardless of bullet size. Objectively, the number of shots needed tells you very little about the bullet.

When it’s the 300 for 4 shots it’s “see how tough they are! Glad I used a big bullet.”

When it’s the .223 for 4 shots it’s “see how tough they are. You need a big bullet to kill elk.”

This elk killing seems to be much more complicated than I ever imagined. Thanks for the fresh perspective.

It’s like living in the 7 blind men and the Elephant fable.



The new math is what throws me. 77 TMk @ 1,600 fps is a fine elk killer at 800 yards - as deadly as a 300 mag would be up close? Velocity and mass of the bullet has no bearing on lethality? Why would anyone need to shoot a little elk more than once if 77 TMK’s are lightning bolts? By definition shooting something twice has doubled the energy used, and you said energy doesn’t do anything, . . . except when it does? Is there a valve I should know about that lets “good” 223 energy in and somehow is blocking “bad” magnum energy? …and where is this valve located?

Velocity, energy and mass don’t matter, but doubling, tripling, or quadrupling it is sometimes required, and depending on what the animal is shot with should determine a person’s response . . . this is well beyond algebra and must be calculus of some kind.

For a system that you fellas claim is so deadly, and erases the effectiveness of already proven systems, it sure takes some interesting math to understand it, and a whole lot of effort to sell.

I for one wish something better would come along. I’m shooting a rifle that came out in the 1950’s, and the Partition bullets are just as old. Your competition is over 70 years old and cost $88.35. That’s not entirely honest, I’m really young at heart and upgraded to new fangled Accubonds.

 

[BRWNBR]

“For a system that you fellas claim is so deadly, and erases the effectiveness of already proven systems, it sure takes some interesting math to understand it, and a whole lot of effort to sell.”

I found this to be a neat observation. I don’t think it totally encompasses what’s happening in these 18 pages of yelling and spitting but it sums up a lot of it!
I’ve tried talking math and ballistics with dead animals before and they sure don’t seem to understand any of it. It’s almost like when a piece of anything goes thru the vitals of a living thing it dies or something…wether the hole was made at 200 fps or at 3000
FPS. Or even if it’s the size of a pencil eraser or the side of a giant jelly bean.

But imma keep reading these threads till I get the math right and animals drop on contact so I too can be a contributor on these forums!

 

[rbutcher1234]

I’ve shot animals with big guns and small guns. Animals have ran with big guns and small guns. Animals have dropped in one shot with both big guns and small guns. Animals have been dead but have had time to run before dying with big guns and small guns. The only way to maximize your chances of recovering an animal as close as possible to where it’s located when you shoot it is to do the following:
1. Hit it in a lethal spot, like shoulder/neck shoulder junction
2. Keep shooting it in a lethal spot until it is in the ground and not moving

Given all of those things, small guns help you accomplish number 1 and number 2 better than big guns. They help you be a better shooter because they’re easier to shoot and encourage realistic practice. They also are easier to shoot again and again at speed.

Big guns are fine. The only reason you need is “it’s ******* awesome and I like it”. When you bring optimization into the equation and are talking about systems and a wholistic approach to maximizing success (success equals you standing over with a recovered intact animal), that is where big guns start to lose rather rapidly.

 

[Bluefish]

“For a system that you fellas claim is so deadly, and erases the effectiveness of already proven systems, it sure takes some interesting math to understand it, and a whole lot of effort to sell.”

I found this to be a neat observation. I don’t think it totally encompasses what’s happening in these 18 pages of yelling and spitting but it sums up a lot of it!
I’ve tried talking math and ballistics with dead animals before and they sure don’t seem to understand any of it. It’s almost like when a piece of anything goes thru the vitals of a living thing it dies or something…wether the hole was made at 200 fps or at 3000
FPS. Or even if it’s the size of a pencil eraser or the side of a giant jelly bean.

But imma keep reading these threads till I get the math right and animals drop on contact so I too can be a contributor on these forums!

I guess my take on what Form has said is you want a 1.5” wound channel and 14”+ penetration to take any animal in NA. You can do that with a 77g tmk in 223 or you can do that with a 300wm and a 200g partition or many options in between. Up to you what you use, but there is a good chance you will make better shots with the 223. Now a 223 will have less range as it just doesn’t have the same powder capacity or the same bc capabilities.

the question for this thread is with that in mind, where would you want to use a magnum. Personally I use larger calibers because I have to. Ie hunting regulations. But I don’t see any advantage to using a bigger bullet and would use a smaller caliber if allowed. I don’t hunt at long enough ranges to need the extra powder of big cartridges with high bc bullets.

 

[Balderdash]

I have a BIG magnum, but I only use it when my 6.5 CM is in the shop. Still isn't the same though.

"The Howitzer was in the shop"

Some of you from the upper Midwest might get that one.

 

[eric1115]

" The Howitzer was in the shop"

Some of you from the upper Midwest might get that one.

Oh Betty Lou! She was da one.

 

[wind gypsy]

Oh Betty Lou! She was da one.

Meat Eater trivia had a question - "What was the name given to the gun, a combination AK-57 uzi radar laser triple barrel double scoped heat-seakin shotgun, in the song Turdy point buck". And not one of those hosers got the dang question right. They had a handful of midwesterners on too.

 

[Balderdash]

Meat Eater trivia had a question - "What was the name given to the gun, a combination AK-57 uzie radar laser triple barrel double scoped heat-seakin shotgun, in the song Turdy point buck". And not one of those hosers got the dang question right. They had a handful of midwesterners on too.

Disgraceful.

My old hunting buddy calls MSR's and any rifle with a "fancy" and/or illuminated reticle Betty Lou. I love it.

 

[BRWNBR]

Is everyone who is going to a smaller bullet going to start driving little ford focuses or small F150’s, maybe some 2 wheel drive Toyota Tacoma? Don’t need horsepower, little rig will get you there just fine. Maybe even drive it better, easier to park or pass. Better fuel economy. I hope no one’s running big jacked up trucks shooting a .22 cal at an elk….cause then I’d be really confused.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

The point should be obvious, animals are tough and sometimes the will to live means some animals die slower. Sometimes it takes 1 bullet sometimes it takes more—- regardless of bullet size. Objectively, the number of shots needed tells you very little about the bullet.

When it’s the 300 for 4 shots it’s “see how tough they are! Glad I used a big bullet.”

When it’s the .223 for 4 shots it’s “see how tough they are. You need a big bullet to kill elk.”

This is spot on.

 

[wind gypsy]

Is everyone who is going to a smaller bullet going to start driving little ford focuses or small F150’s, maybe some 2 wheel drive Toyota Tacoma? Don’t need horsepower, little rig will get you there just fine. Maybe even drive it better, easier to park or pass. Better fuel economy. I hope no one’s running big jacked up trucks shooting a .22 cal at an elk….cause then I’d be really confused.

Maybe the people who chose cars or cartridges based on trying to fit an identity rather than the merits of each?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Is everyone who is going to a smaller bullet going to start driving little ford focuses or small F150’s, maybe some 2 wheel drive Toyota Tacoma? Don’t need horsepower, little rig will get you there just fine. Maybe even drive it better, easier to park or pass. Better fuel economy. I hope no one’s running big jacked up trucks shooting a .22 cal at an elk….cause then I’d be really confused.

I drove my "big jacked up" Jeep this morning and killed animals with 17 grain VMAX bullets. I even wore a shirt with multiple colors on it. Mega gay.