#12 Annoying Debate Topic for fun: MOA vs. MIL --my take

[wind gypsy]

Hmm.....on a moa style turret are usually in 1/4"@100yrd increments ...you can get them in 1/8" but it's a little unnecessary....so 4 click for one inch at 100yrds ....where with mil it would take 2 or 3 clicks (2.54 click to be exact) so in reality the moa is more fine tunable

My post that you quoted was about reticles, not turrets. The point was that a 1 MOA subtension is perfectly useable on higher mag scopes with thinner reticles.

 

[BULLBLASTER]

I agree with you on those points. Once you dial, all you need to do is figure out where on the reticle was the impact and then use that as the POI (assuming it wasn't you that made a bad shot).

MIL becomes easier during situations around the actual shot process you discussed.

I guess i am the oddball that has gone and truely tried mil and then returned to moa. In a few thousand rounds, i couldnt make mils be any “better” for me. I also much prefer sfp reticles to ffp, ive been down that road a few times trying and thousands of rounds and a couple years later came back. An moa nxs is my ideal optic and works very well.

 

[hereinaz]

I guess i am the oddball that has gone and truely tried mil and then returned to moa. In a few thousand rounds, i couldnt make mils be any “better” for me. I also much prefer sfp reticles to ffp, ive been down that road a few times trying and thousands of rounds and a couple years later came back. An moa nxs is my ideal optic and works very well.

The choice is always tradeoffs. Styles of shooting, different brains, and all sorts of considerations will result in different choices. Good explanation, cause some guys need to hear from you as well.

 

[SDHNTR]

Good original post. Refreshingly pragmatic.

 

[repins05]

Like already mentioned In several threads…

Here in Oregon, every hunter I have talked with and have been around since I was 12 years old judge distance in yards. This includes archery and rifle.

I am sure there are hunters that shoot with mil here in Oregon but I don’t know any. Perhaps this will change with the emergence of long range shooting. It is not happening anytime soon. I shoot both but moa only when hunting.

You can do you but when you get invited to a hunting camp talking mil is going to be a foreign language. It will literally be a language barrier and could be a detriment to your hunting ability in a group scenario.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Here in Oregon, every hunter I have talked with and have been around since I was 12 years old judge distance in yards. This includes archery and rifle.

I don't understand what this has to do with anything. We're talking about two angular measurements, not linear ones.

You can do you but when you get invited to a hunting camp talking mil is going to be a foreign language. It will literally be a language barrier and could be a detriment to your hunting ability in a group scenario.

Man if I go to anything except a coues deer camp I mostly expect that people won't know what MOA is either.

 

[repins05]

I don't understand what this has to do with anything. We're talking about two angular measurements, not linear ones.

Man if I go to anything except a coues deer camp I mostly expect that people won't know what MOA is either.

Could be a regional thing for hunting.

when shooting mils it seems people talk meters versus yards.

 

[JohnJohnson]

when shooting mils it seems people talk versus yards.

MIL and MOA are both angular measurements. You can just use yards for your range number with either form of measurement, there's no difference there. In fact I think MIL is even more important for people who think that they "think in inches/feet/yards" because hopefully it will get them to stop doing that and instead start using their scopes correctly.

 

[repins05]

MIL and MOA are both angular measurements. You can just use yards for your range number with either form of measurement, there's no difference there. In fact I think MIL is even more important for people who think that they "think in inches/feet/yards" because hopefully it will get them to stop doing that and instead start using their scopes correctly.

I see why you don’t understand what my post implied. I am moving on. Lol.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I see why you don’t understand what my post implied. I am moving on. Lol.

I don't know what's inside your mind, man. You could actually elaborate on what your post implied instead of playing "guess what I meant". All I know is you're the one who brought up yards and meters. It's not my fault for pointing out that people who talk MIL = Meters and MOA = Yards generally don't understand how a riflescope works. Those people (you may not be one, again I'm not inside your head) would benefit from using a MIL scope because constantly equating angular units with linear ones is a terrible system for using a scope. I don't think that's controversial to say. Enjoy your day though, go 49ers.

 

[SDHNTR]

I speak both languages, but the one universal is dudes who speak in mils and meters are far more annoying. They make more noise about it instead of just getting the job done. Mostly tactikooks who couldn’t hunt their way out of a wet paper bag.

 

[rclouse79]

I went with mil. It is more intuitive if you understand how an angle of radians is derived. I can see sticking with MOA if that is what you are used to. If you have never seen this SNL skit poking fun at our units of measurement, it is definitely worth a watch.

 

[doc holiday13]

To say the quiet part out loud and expand on this, if someone doesn't shoot benchrest competitions MRAD is better for every other kind of long range shooting I can think of. People can make MOA work just fine but it's not as useful as MRAD. The "why" is gone over in a lot of detail in this thread below, among others.

I would agree with this.

I can also remember a day when we had mil reticles with MOA turrets.. WTF. Once I went to FFP scopes I converted to all MIL. while not hugely different .1 mil and 1/4 moa are almost the same size measurement

 

[repins05]

#1 driving factor for me using MOA is everyone I hunt with uses inches, feet, and yards. We had one newbie at camp during spring bear who was hunting Mil. I ended up being a spotter for a bear and it was like we spoke different languages. He had to use a calculator on his phone to convert my yardage measurements. He missed in front of it and I was able to call out in feet...which he then fumbled around with again. Then the bear walked off.

Obviously this could be a scenario if it was vice versa as well.

 

[wind gypsy]

#1 driving factor for me using MOA is everyone I hunt with uses inches, feet, and yards. We had one newbie at camp during spring bear who was hunting Mil. I ended up being a spotter for a bear and it was like we spoke different languages. He had to use a calculator on his phone to convert my yardage measurements. He missed in front of it and I was able to call out in feet...which he then fumbled around with again. Then the bear walked off.

Obviously this could be a scenario if it was vice versa as well.

So you called a windage correction in FEET but the issue was dude having a mil scope? Step 1 is learning that using inches, feet, or centimeters and then trying to calculate that into dope is the wrong way to go about it.

 

[repins05]

It is the wrong way to do it but that's what happened. It was not a good shot. But that was real life and shit happens. You are missing my point. I would say the majority of hunters around here could fall into that situation easily. I am not going to try to talk to every friend and hunter I know and tell them they need to get their shit figured out. Although I make comments on occasion. Lol.

 

[Timberline001]

For me it’s the same reason I use ONX and won’t ever try another brand. I’ve invested alot of time into learning MOA well and have alot of other things I want to learn about instead of learning a new system when mine works for me as is. I do believe MILs could be better but I have no issues now.

 

[wind gypsy]

It is the wrong way to do it but that's what happened. It was not a good shot. But that was real life and shit happens. You are missing my point. I would say the majority of hunters around here could fall into that situation easily. I am not going to try to talk to every friend and hunter I know and tell them they need to get their shit figured out. Although I make comments on occasion. Lol.

It's just that the scenario has nothing to do with Mils vs MOA and everything to do with people not knowing what they are doing. You're basically saying MOA allows people to use the same errant lingo and thought process as other hunters who don't know what they are doing. If someone says I missed the mark by multiple feet and I start thinking "Hmm.. how many MOA or MIL is roughly 3 feet at 500 yards", it's clear i'm over my head and shouldn't send another round unless there's a clear explanation and fix with a high level of confidence.

Basically - If i'm hunting with people who use inches at a given yardarge to calculate MOA corrections, there is no benefit to communicating in that manner with them regardless if my scope is MIL or MOA.

 

[repins05]

For me it’s the same reason I use ONX and won’t ever try another brand. I’ve invested alot of time into learning MOA well and have alot of other things I want to learn about instead of learning a new system when mine works for me as is. I do believe MILs could be better but I have no issues now.

That's because you must be the ultimate hunter. Over and out. lol.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

So you called a windage correction in FEET but the issue was dude having a mil scope? Step 1 is learning that using inches, feet, or centimeters and then trying to calculate that into dope is the wrong way to go about it.

Honest inquiry here:
How many people spot for their hunting partner with a reticle optic? It’s always through the binos or spotter, rarely if ever with an etched reticle.
I’ve spent plenty of range time where everyone is on the same system with the same ruler in their face and it works, but that isn’t reality in the field hunting.
if you’re looking thru your bino's or spotter, how are you calling corrections to the shooter if they don’t see their miss?