Is the future of hunting all doom and gloom?

[venado mula]

Sounds like conservative fear.

 

[william schmaltz]

I'm not seeing habitat from agriculture as a main issue. Habitat destruction due to urban sprawl and general development is I would say THE main issue. In the Midwest I see less agriculture and more subdivisions, less agriculture and more solar farms popping up though many small maybe 3-5 acres there are some many times more than that. Go out west to MT, ID, WY. Less working ranches and hay/alfalfa fields and grasslands but more ranchettes and wind farms many on wintering or breeding grounds. Can't remember the last time I drove by what used to be grassland or timber stand and see new ag fields. Valleys in MT that there used to be 5 or 6 ranches in now have hundreds of homes.

In fact from in the last 20years the U.S. has lost something like 50million acres of farm land. Between 2021 and 2022 alone the U.S. lost 1.9million acres.

I grew up in Ag. I love, respect, and support the ag community. I've got access to tens of thousands of acres of friends and family ag land back home in North Dakota and they all know I'd drop what I'm doing in a minute to fly home and help them if they were in a pinch. But even they will be quick to admit they've turned the place into a lifeless monoculture. Hell, on half those 10k acres, there's no longer a spot to even put a tree stand. Total CRP acres in most midwestern states peaked out around 2002-2005. CRP has decreased by 14 million acres since. At the same time, most of the trees planted as part of the great plains shelter belt have all died. Most of those shelter belts were pulled over the last decade and not restored - both on CRP and land already in production. No need to replant, everyone plants no till now. I watched it all happen in real time driving back and forth to college during those years. It would be a guess, but between CRP and shelter belts removed, it's safe to say +50% of habitat has been lost over the last 15-20 years in ND. Add in the nightmare that is drain tiling and whatever water that is left is so loaded with nitrogen from runoff that they're essentially dead pools. Drive across the upper midwest right now after the record snow year and you can see all the random puddles and places that were too wet to plant this year that were cattails and habitat 15-20 years ago. Quad-track planters have basically eliminated buffer zones as they're now able to plant right through what were once seasonal wetlands. Blame it on technology and the need to maximize land use for profit for these guys to get by if ya want, but it is what it is.

Just in north Dakota alone, over 2 million acres of CRP acres have been lost over the last 20 years. That's in addition to most all tree rows being removed and hundreds of thousands of grasslands (former pasture) that held an actual ecosystem turned into wheat fields that are essentially bare ground for 10 months of the year. I'm not innocent, I've spent hundreds of hours in the mid 2000s as a broke college student breaking up thousands of acres of CRP and pasture. Best paying job in town.

So, urban sprawl is certainly a massive issue. I worked in the oilfield in NW ND and that place is essentially void of wildlife now. We can argue which is worst between the two, and in the end it doesn't matter. The loss of habitat in the Midwest from the way agricultural practices have changed over the last couple of decades is substantial. North Dakota went from over 150,000 deer tags around 2006 to about 53,000 this year. That is not because of condos and solar/wind farms. (for the record, I hate solar and wind farms too)

 

[roadrunner]

Yes, it’s doom and gloom for the future of hunting. It will only get worse not better as the human population increases with an ever higher percentage of those humans being strictly indoor dogs. Those indoor dogs will be either indifferent or downright against hunting and they will vote according. Urban areas already control the voting in just about every state. My son will hunt i seriously doubt his children will.

The best days are absolutely behind us.

Human population isn't growing that quickly. Before long, millions will be dying from old age. Sorry Boomers.

Young Millinials and Gen Z are waiting to get married and have kids at an older age, like around 30, and then limiting them to 1 or 2.

 

[ozyclint]

If it gets to that point, you'll be more worried about the number tattooed on your arm than hunting.

Tattoo is so last millennium.
It's AI brain implants now. Ask Elon

 

[Rich M]

I can't help but think this "feeling" of doom and gloom about hunting viability has been around since our paleo ancestors were forced to adapt to increased hunting pressure, hunter rivalry, no-hunting boundaries imposed by neighboring rulers, decreased animal densities, climate concerns, access barriers, etc.

Those that thrived adapted by migrating away from the problem areas. Those that didn't migrate chose to stay and worry.

We are a self-fulfilling species that is reaching a maximum holding capacity, and most of our stressors are self-imposed.

There is no warm and fuzzy answer to this problem. Have to adapt to the world we've shaped.

Like you said, we need to adapt as things change.

All the talk about “we will hunt mice when ghe buffalo are gone” comes to mind.

 

[Rich M]

I grew up in Ag. I love, respect, and support the ag community. I've got access to tens of thousands of acres of friends and family ag land back home in North Dakota and they all know I'd drop what I'm doing in a minute to fly home and help them if they were in a pinch. But even they will be quick to admit they've turned the place into a lifeless monoculture. Hell, on half those 10k acres, there's no longer a spot to even put a tree stand. Total CRP acres in most midwestern states peaked out around 2002-2005. CRP has decreased by 14 million acres since. At the same time, most of the trees planted as part of the great plains shelter belt have all died. Most of those shelter belts were pulled over the last decade and not restored - both on CRP and land already in production. No need to replant, everyone plants no till now. I watched it all happen in real time driving back and forth to college during those years. It would be a guess, but between CRP and shelter belts removed, it's safe to say +50% of habitat has been lost over the last 15-20 years in ND. Add in the nightmare that is drain tiling and whatever water that is left is so loaded with nitrogen from runoff that they're essentially dead pools. Drive across the upper midwest right now after the record snow year and you can see all the random puddles and places that were too wet to plant this year that were cattails and habitat 15-20 years ago. Quad-track planters have basically eliminated buffer zones as they're now able to plant right through what were once seasonal wetlands. Blame it on technology and the need to maximize land use for profit for these guys to get by if ya want, but it is what it is.

Just in north Dakota alone, over 2 million acres of CRP acres have been lost over the last 20 years. That's in addition to most all tree rows being removed and hundreds of thousands of grasslands (former pasture) that held an actual ecosystem turned into wheat fields that are essentially bare ground for 10 months of the year. I'm not innocent, I've spent hundreds of hours in the mid 2000s as a broke college student breaking up thousands of acres of CRP and pasture. Best paying job in town.

So, urban sprawl is certainly a massive issue. I worked in the oilfield in NW ND and that place is essentially void of wildlife now. We can argue which is worst between the two, and in the end it doesn't matter. The loss of habitat in the Midwest from the way agricultural practices have changed over the last couple of decades is substantial. North Dakota went from over 150,000 deer tags around 2006 to about 53,000 this year. That is not because of condos and solar/wind farms. (for the record, I hate solar and wind farms too)

It is farms, condos, wind farms, solar farms, development, etc says the guy in a state w 23 million people and growing at 1,000 per day.

Really hard to hunt when critters have nowhere to live and breathe. Development makes a big diff no matter what form. Look out from your area and understand that diff areas have diff development and the game dies as a result,

 

[Sapcut]

This thread is a great reminder for me. As a wildlife biologist/hunting consultant/land manager/land broker/solo traditional bowhunter/etc. etc.......other than elk hunting out west, and a $13 public permint one year, I have never paid a dime for any hunting rights in my life. And I get 100+ sits a year whitetail hunting and who knows how many wild pig bow hikes I fulfill.

Not only do I not pay to hunt, I get paid to hunt properties for clients as a consultant. Not take their animals but scout, groundtruth for bucks.... setting up their property so they can take them. Headed to put out mineral stations tomorrow for a fairly famous rockstar dude I've been working with.

Just sayin I'm thankful.

 

[WiscoHoundsman]

yes and no. Western big game hunting is taking a hit as people move there. Midwest towns that are over an hour from a major city (thinking college town or bigger) have plenty of access. Here in Wisconsin we sell about 500k deer licenses each year. opportunity exists to get access or own land pretty easily. Will it be the best deer hunting maybe maybe not. Small game hunting has ample opportunities. I don’t see this changing any time soon, deer populations need to be controlled

 

[Stalker69]

I can't help but feel like it is. If you're an eastern hunter many of your potential hunting grounds are bought up and leased out to the biggest bidder. Out west, tag demand is outpacing supply rapidly. Our most common big game animal in the west (the mule deer) is just kinda barely hanging on. Each year we see more and more development and an increase of 75 mph murder machines all over every highway in the west turning them into meat crayons. The political winds are shifting and a lot of people who aren't friendly to hunting are getting into positions where they can make policy. Outfitted hunts are getting more and more out of the price range of average Joes. I can't really think of any silver linings that will improve things for hunters as we go into the future. Can you? How much longer do you imagine yourself having some semblance of quality hunting? Do you see anything that gives you hope for the future of hunting?

I would say In my grandsons life time, there will be no hunting. For sure if he has kids, in theirs there will be none. Shoot, the way its going it might be in my life time. It Sucks for sure.

 

[dirtytough]

I worked in the oilfield in NW ND and that place is essentially void of wildlife now.

One of the most ignorant things I’ve ever seen typed on RS before. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[insanelupus]

How much longer do you imagine yourself having some semblance of quality hunting? Do you see anything that gives you hope for the future of hunting?

Perspective is important and sometimes verges on self- fulfilling prophecy, and negativity bias is a real thing.

Change is inevitable, I'm willing, when I must, to adapt to that change, to procure the outcome I desire.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I've always found this quote relatable.

"When the last deer disappears into the morning mist, When the last elk vanishes from the hills, When the last buffalo falls on the plains, I will hunt mice for I am a hunter and I must have my freedom."

- Chief Joseph

 

[hiker270]

Depends on how much money you have and how much private land you have access too.

 

[Yoder]

I have plenty of places to hunt and I rarely see another hunter. There are less hunters every year nationwide. I think hunting will continue to get better. I would worry more about the economic future of this country. We are going to have way more things to worry about than hunting opportunities.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Human population isn't growing that quickly. Before long, millions will be dying from old age. Sorry Boomers.

Young Millinials and Gen Z are waiting to get married and have kids at an older age, like around 30, and then limiting them to 1 or 2.

Human population isn't growing that quickly. Before long, millions will be dying from old age. Sorry Boomers.

Young Millinials and Gen Z are waiting to get married and have kids at an older age, like around 30, and then limiting them to 1 or 2.

Human population isn’t growing that quickly
Come on man that’s ridiculous. The human population in 2000 was 6,143,493,823, today it’s 8,037, 434,162!

World Population Clock: 8.2 Billion People (LIVE, 2024) - Worldometer

How many people are there in the world? World population has reached 8 billion on November 15, 2022 according to the United Nations. World population live counter with data sheets, graphs, maps, and census data regarding the current, historical, and future world population figures, estimates...

www.worldometers.info

The small rural town i grew up in during the 80s hunting private farms and the surrounding public has grown from 2000 people when i was a kid to 23,000 according to the sign just outside of town now. There is only a single farm left from when i was a kid as the others sold to subdividers who crammed a house on every 1/4 acre and the public grounds around there are absolutely congested by the people crowding into all those homes. You can’t hunt around there anymore brother.

If you haven’t seen this type of urban sprawl and population boom consider yourself fortunate. Just know it’s coming for you eventually and it absolutely destroys hunting when it comes. Subdivisions full of out of touch urbanites, strip malls, condo and apt developments, etc and hunting aren’t compatible.

 

[Tjdeerslayer37]

I have plenty of places to hunt and I rarely see another hunter. There are less hunters every year nationwide. I think hunting will continue to get better. I would worry more about the economic future of this country. We are going to have way more things to worry about than hunting opportunities.

Wish that were the case in the areas i hunt. The amount of people in the woods around here has been crazy since the covid hunting boom.

 

[Yoder]

Wish that were the case in the areas i hunt. The amount of people in the woods around here has been crazy since the covid hunting boom.

PA sold 400k more licenses than Michigan in 2021. Maybe we have more public land? I generally hunt areas that other people either walk past and ignore or suck to get to. I think it will only get better. I just don't see the younger generations hunting unless it's on their phone.

 

[Yoder]

Human population isn’t growing that quickly
Come on man that’s ridiculous. The human population in 2000 was 6,143,493,823, today it’s 8,037, 434,162!

World Population Clock: 8.2 Billion People (LIVE, 2024) - Worldometer

How many people are there in the world? World population has reached 8 billion on November 15, 2022 according to the United Nations. World population live counter with data sheets, graphs, maps, and census data regarding the current, historical, and future world population figures, estimates...

www.worldometers.info

The small rural town i grew up in during the 80s hunting private farms and the surrounding public has grown from 2000 people when i was a kid to 23,000 according to the sign just outside of town now. There is only a single farm left from when i was a kid as the others sold to subdividers who crammed a house on every 1/4 acre and the public grounds around there are absolutely congested by the people crowding into all those homes. You can’t hunt around there anymore brother.

If you haven’t seen this type of urban sprawl and population boom consider yourself fortunate. Just know it’s coming for you eventually and it absolutely destroys hunting when it comes. Subdivisions full of out of touch urbanites, strip malls, condo and apt developments, etc and hunting aren’t compatible.

Why is South Korea paying people extra money to have children? The population of China actually decreased in 2022. That whole one child and aborting female baby thing is catching up to them. In 2000 the world population increase was 1.31%. In 2020 it was 1.05%. The amount of increase is dropping every year. Soon it will be decreasing.

 

[Tjdeerslayer37]

PA sold 400k more licenses than Michigan in 2021. Maybe we have more public land? I generally hunt areas that other people either walk past and ignore or suck to get to. I think it will only get better. I just don't see the younger generations hunting unless it's on their phone.

our deer population, and also our people population both are heavily concentrated in the lower 1/3 of our state, so the numbers arent equally dispersed. if i head north 4 hours i see far less people, and even less deer lol. still the covid effect has been noticeable even at our deer camp way north in the u.p., new camps, more shots heard, etc.

 

[*zap*]

there may be plenty of doom and gloom in the future, sure looks that way from where I am sitting.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Why is South Korea paying people extra money to have children? The population of China actually decreased in 2022. That whole one child and aborting female baby thing is catching up to them. In 2000 the world population increase was 1.31%. In 2020 it was 1.05%. The amount of increase is dropping every year. Soon it will be decreasing.

Too bad all of those things you noted isn’t impacting the rise in human population to over 8 billion people as of now. It’s also apparently had zero impact in the astronomical shift of urbanites moving from cities to small towns and rural areas all across the US. It also doesn’t change the fact that a lower and lower percentage of the population living in small town and rural America don’t hunt.

It is impossible to argue there are less people living in and recreating on public lands where i grew up in SE WI than when i started hunting in the early 80s because it’s simply not true. Likewise, it’s impossible to argue there is more land available to hunt now in SE WI than in the 80s. The sprawling subdivisions with literally hundreds of homes blanketing the lands i used to hunt in my youth can attest to that. My experience is not unique urban sprawl is happening everywhere and it most definitely does not make the hunting better.

The Chines population decreasing and South Korea oddly paying people to have kids doesn’t somehow make the future of hunting in the US less grim. It’s NOT getting better it’s getting worse with every new house or strip mall being built where long ago a guy had a treestand or a blind. It’s just the way it is.