Q_Sertorius
WKR
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2024
- Messages
- 1,325
That’s disgusting to shoot an animal in a farmyard.
Farmyard? Did you watch the videos?
The second video title is a play on “needle in a haystack.”
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That’s disgusting to shoot an animal in a farmyard.
The point about tone and frequency is well-taken. I will bow out of this conversation until someone else responds.
I was simply asking for objective data about wound channels. Or even anecdotal examples of “this animal got hit here by a 6.5 PRC and a bigger, faster bullet would have killed it.” I provided some possible examples of that above.
I find it funny that wondering why someone thinks a 6.5 PRC isn’t enough gun but a 7mm magnum is enough gun makes me an advocate for “embracing the small caliber stuff.” The 6.5 PRC is not a small cartridge.
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“Keep on keepin’ on…”
Farmyard? Did you watch the videos?
The second video title is a play on “needle in a haystack.”
____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”
I saw the first video where Keith shot the buffalo from his the safety of his blind. The animal was grazing on vegetation placed in front of the blind. I assume this was at one of those South African game farms. Where they relocate animals for folks to shoot. Was disgusting and I have lost respect for Keith for taking part. I suppose he got financial incentives.
Not all bigger bullets make bigger wounds than smaller bullets. Sure a 225 eldm is bigger than a 147 eldm, but is a 225 ttsx wound bigger than 77 tmk? Imho the statement bigger bullets make bigger wounds is not absolute and really depends on bullet construction. Probably even more than size.Obviously there can be exceptions and one of scenarios. But bigger bullets make bigger wounds.
Of course it does, that’s obvious and goes without saying. @huntnful isn’t talking about a 30 fmj vs 6.5 eldm.Not all bigger bullets make bigger wounds than smaller bullets. Sure a 225 eldm is bigger than a 147 eldm, but is a 225 ttsx wound bigger than 77 tmk? Imho the statement bigger bullets make bigger wounds is not absolute and really depends on bullet construction. Probably even more than size.
It was specifically stated about bigger bullets of the same design. Why I referenced the ELDM line and not your example.Not all bigger bullets make bigger wounds than smaller bullets. Sure a 225 eldm is bigger than a 147 eldm, but is a 225 ttsx wound bigger than 77 tmk? Imho the statement bigger bullets make bigger wounds is not absolute and really depends on bullet construction. Probably even more than size.
To make a point, bigger bullets of the same design didn't exist 30 years ago. Tech has progressed, so if we have better bullets can we drop down in caliber? Im not sure the small caliber argument is centered around a 338 lapua causing less damage than a 223. I think everyone can agree with that. I think the concept is more about optimizing your setup. In the other direction. Most guys shooting 300 win would laugh at someone using a 50bmg for elk.He was specifically talking about bigger bullets of the same design. Why I referenced the ELDM line.
My brother’s 6.5 PRC shoots the 156 EOL into little bitty groups at 2934 fps MV.
Doing the ballistics voodoo it’s superior to our 162 ELDX load from our 7mm Rem Mags.
That’s plenty.
P
No arguments here with any of what you said there man. I personally lean towards just shooting the biggest, fastest, frangible bullet that you can shoot well. Whatever it may be, a bigger wound never hurt. And if you can still spot impacts, make good/fast follow ups and shoot it well, then you only gain benefits in regards to wind drift error, range forgiveness, wound channel and time to incapacitation.To make a point, bigger bullets of the same design didn't exist 30 years ago. Tech has progressed, so if we have better bullets can we drop down in caliber? Im not sure the small caliber argument is centered around a 338 lapua causing less damage than a 223. I think everyone can agree with that. I think the concept is more about optimizing your setup. In the other direction. Most guys shooting 300 win would laugh at someone using a 50bmg for elk.
If your shots are all under 300 yards a 223 should work for most applications, you now have a gun that will be a lot handier, easier follow up shots, easier to shoot in difficult positions, easier to practice, you will be more lethal than someone who uses a 300 and is not well practiced. Your odds of being well practiced are also much great as you have eliminated barriers.
There are a lot of benefits going with the smallest caliber that you can confidently kill with. The guns of yesteryear were all built around maximum point blank range so more powder meant incrementally more range. With laser range finders this limitation vanished. With long range expanding bullets things changed even more. Small caliber is all about practicality.
I do a lot of PRS now a days and prior to going in on that sport I was all about 300 win and 30-06. Once I realized what I was capable of with a good amount of practice my perspective shifted a lot. I regularly shoot long range and in competitions shooting off of random obstacle under pressure you wind up missing a lot of shots due to wind and other things like errors or even sd or extreme spread. I can shoot very well with a 300 win mag but it takes more diligence and focus. There is no way I would shoot better with a 300 win in a prs match lol omg itd be terrible. Spotting impacts is impossible. If you cannot spot your impact you are missing out on critical information. Its simply no longer necessary to shoot something like a 300 win. Maximum point blank range is old stuff I have a range finder and I can dial easily. A 6.5 creedmoor is far more enjoyable, easier to shoot, cheaper to shoot and allows for a lot more opportunity to practice and improve. This is just an opinion at the end of the day, I will likely never shoot a 300 win again unless there are no other options such as a guide requirement or laws. There are a lot of people now successfully taking elk with caliber much smaller than 6.5 creedmoor. I have seen with a 6.5 creedmoor does to lungs. No animal is going far if you put a shot in the right spot. Youre more likely to place the shot well with a rifle you are confident with and you will be able to extend your range as well and keep the weight of the gun down.
I think you need to upgrade to a 28 nosler. I wouldn't want to take a chance on a goat with a 6.5 creedmoor magnum. Don't forget to pack your yoga mat and chai tea lattes.My 6.5 PRC’s dope. It is pumping out the 156gr Bergers at 2975fps MV. Gonna use this load on a mt. goat hunt next month.
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It was specifically stated about bigger bullets of the same design. Why I referenced the ELDM line and not your example.
And was it windy and snowy?Yeah? But at what temp bro?
I think what your seeing is a guide that takes a bunch of hunters out a year, and sees poor shooters, or over confident shooters wounding elk with a 6.5, and he's put all the 6.5's in the same bucket.I recently shot my first Elk. The guide insisted I use a .30 cal instead of my 6.5 PRC. I obliged with my 30-06 Tikka. The big bull went 3 steps. Great day.
It started me thinking about cartridges. My 6.5 PRC is a Proof Elevation MTR 24" bbl. For me, It is the most accurate rifle I own. It loves the Berger 156 gr EOL that I purchased from Choice and achieves 3010 fps. It shoots UM loaded 147 ELD-m at 2975 fps. My Carbon Six 24" barreled 30-06 Tikka groups 165 gr Accubonds very well at 2940 fps and shoots Barnes 168 gr TTSX even faster at 3025 fps. My friend has a Tikka 24" 7mm Rem Mag that shoots factory 162 gr ELD-x at 2925 fps.
I realize I am comparing different bullets and factory ammo to semi-custom ammo but these are the cartridges I personally saw chronographed. After entering the info in a ballistics calculator, the 6.5 PRC, at 300 yards, has considerably more velocity then any of the others. It has more energy, less drop and less drift plus a higher sectional density. Because of the higher BC bullets the 6.5 PRC has an even bigger advantage at 400 and 500 yards.
Is the 6.5 PRC really the marginal cartridge for Elk simply because it is 6 gr less weight and .020 less diameter? Is the issue that most feel the 180 gr bullet in the 06 or the 7mm is a much better choice for bigger game?